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Other pitchers who pitched longer than Dylan Cease Hijack

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  • Other pitchers who pitched longer than Dylan Cease Hijack

    Originally posted by voodoochile View Post
    Cease is the first pitcher ever to allow less than two runs in 13 straight starts.
    It's a significant accomplishment, but he only goes six innings a start. It's just not comparable to guys who routinely went eight or nine innings a start.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nellie Fox View Post

    It's a significant accomplishment, but he only goes six innings a start. It's just not comparable to guys who routinely went eight or nine innings a start.
    And how many of those were there and how recently did they pitch?
    Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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    • #3
      Originally posted by voodoochile View Post

      And how many of those were there and how recently did they pitch?
      A lot of them. Look up any pitcher of note from the past and see how many innings a year he pitched. Complete games simply don't happen anymore, and they used to be the goal every time a guy took the mound. It really doesn't matter "how recently" when you're talking about Cease being the "first ever," but really it's only been the last decade or two that starting pitchers are only expected to go five or six and then the bullpen takes over.

      Seriously, going through the lineup twice is simply not comparable to going through three and four times. Would pitchers in the 70s, 80s, 90s get taken out after six when they were cruising with a shutout or only one run allowed?
      Last edited by Nellie Fox; 08-06-2022, 12:11 PM.

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      • #4
        In the Modern Era which I believe started after WW II.
        Complete game leaders:

        Warren Spahn 382
        Robin Robert's 305
        Gaylord Perry 303
        Early Wynn 289
        Bob Feller 279
        Fergie Jenkins 267
        Bob Gibson 255
        Steve Carlton 254
        Phil Niekro 245
        Bert Blyleven 242
        Tom Seaver 231

        There have been 21 complete games so far in 2022.
        In 1968 and again in 1969 Gibson had 28 complete games.

        I'm too lazy to get into innings pitched but our own Wilbur Wood had 4 straight years when he pitched at least 320 innings with a high of 379 and missed a 5th year when he threw 291 innings. Of course Wood was a knuckleballer but still....
        Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 08-06-2022, 12:35 PM.
        Now coming up to bat for the White Sox is the Mighty Mite, Nelson Fox.

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        • #5
          Props to Cease, but as you two note, nowhere near the innings and complete games these pitchers threw. If you look at some of these guys they were a 1 or a 2 and saw some of the best hitters 3,4 sometimes 5 times a game.

          I’ll sit back down in my rocker now and resume reading my AARP magazine article on happy colons for Senior’s.

          BK59

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BigKlu59 View Post
            Props to Cease, but as you two note, nowhere near the innings and complete games these pitchers threw. If you look at some of these guys they were a 1 or a 2 and saw some of the best hitters 3,4 sometimes 5 times a game.

            I’ll sit back down in my rocker now and resume reading my AARP magazine article on happy colons for Senior’s.

            BK59
            No rush. Take a nap first.
            Ah, you can't beat fun at the old ball park.

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            • #7
              THe problem with comparing today's pitchers with those of the Days of Yore when it comes to complete games is that the number of CGs dropped with the height of the Mound. When the Mound was lowered, there were less Fastballs and more breaking pitches which tax the arm more. It is apples and oranges comparing the two eras.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dumpjerry View Post
                THe problem with comparing today's pitchers with those of the Days of Yore when it comes to complete games is that the number of CGs dropped with the height of the Mound. When the Mound was lowered, there were less Fastballs and more breaking pitches which tax the arm more. It is apples and oranges comparing the two eras.
                Apples and oranges was pretty much my original point. And you'll notice I referenced the 70s, 80s, and 90s, all after the mound was lowered. You simply cannot deny that starting pitchers today go FAR fewer innings per start than they used to even 15 years ago, and it's not even arguable.

                But simply debating the original point of the thread is apparently a hijack.

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                • #9
                  ...
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                  • #10
                    That thing looks Ike Shoot the Chutes at Riverview at the end there.

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                    • #11
                      Another reason why CGs have dropped off since 1968 (the last season of the higher Mound) is some guy named Tony LaRussa. He and his longtime Pitching Coach are the guys who created roles for the Bullpen-Setup, Closer, etc. This made the strategy for the Seventh Inning focused on getting a specialist for each inning out of the Bullpen.

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                      • #12
                        My only point was that when you average slightly fewer than 6 innings per start over those 13 games as Cease has, you're going to have fewer runs scored against you than just the fairly recent past, where pitchers who had only allowed 0 or 1 run after six innings would have been far more likely to continue pitching in those games. And if they only matched the (again, fairly recent) MLB average of a little over 7 innings per start, they would have pitched 13-14 more innings in 13 games than Cease has. And that somewhat offsets the "first ever" stat.

                        He's a terrific pitcher, but he's used very differently than starters were in the recent past.

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                        • #13
                          The entire game has changed.

                          Hitters on the whole no longer strive to put the ball in play, since it’s more efficient to generate runs with a walk and an extra base hit than stringing together three singles. There are fewer sacrifices as well.

                          Because there are fewer putouts in each game, there must by necessity be more strikeouts.

                          There are fewer hits and more walks.

                          So todays starting pitchers are throwing harder, and they are throwing more pitches to generate each out. That’s why they can’t go deeper into games without risking serious, career-threatening injury.

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                          • #14
                            *Heavy sigh*. I'm not disputing any of that. To put it as simply as possible, over any 13 game stretch, a guy who averages fewer than 6 innings per start is highly likely to give up fewer runs than a guy who averages over 7 innings per start.

                            I'm trained in social-science research. If anyone submitted research that makes a conclusion while not controlling for an obvious confounding variable would get blown out of the water in the peer-review process.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nellie Fox View Post
                              *Heavy sigh*. I'm not disputing any of that. To put it as simply as possible, over any 13 game stretch, a guy who averages fewer than 6 innings per start is highly likely to give up fewer runs than a guy who averages over 7 innings per start.

                              I'm trained in social-science research. If anyone submitted research that makes a conclusion while not controlling for an obvious confounding variable would get blown out of the water in the peer-review process.
                              Fair points. I’m just saying that what you are reducing to one variable is actually more complicated than a simple number, in what appears to be an effort to downplay Cease’s accomplishment. Frankly, while you may not intend it this way, it comes across as yet another “baseball was better in the past” lament.

                              If such a lament is neither your intent nor even a subtext, then I apologize and stand corrected.

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