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  • AZ. requests delay to spring training...

    In my opinion a wise precaution. We'll see if MLB and the MLBPA do something with it:

    https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/c...e-to-covid-19/

  • #2
    I can't say I blame them. Might as well grab as many arms as possible. It's going to be another bumpy ride all year.

    Comment


    • #3
      To be clear, it is not "AZ" requesting this, but rather a group of Arizona mayors. The state government does not appear to be behind this letter.
      "Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but those who stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only after they are ruined."
      -- Thucydides

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      • #4
        Originally posted by HomeFish View Post
        To be clear, it is not "AZ" requesting this, but rather a group of Arizona mayors. The state government does not appear to be behind this letter.
        True but for brevity's sake I used the abbreviation of the state in the topic column. I didn't figure the "state" would be for it based on past actions by the governor concerning the virus.

        Comment


        • #5
          The sad thing is the commissioner and the owners are rooting for this, as it could lead to less games and prorated salary.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DeployEloy View Post
            The sad thing is the commissioner and the owners are rooting for this, as it could lead to less games and prorated salary.
            Well given the circumstances, the number of cases, the number of people dying, it would make sense to me for both sides to agree to postpone and start the season on May 1. That would mean spring training starting around March 15-20.

            The other important point this letter does, is put the Mayor's feelings "on the record" and potentially protect them from liability issues should MLB insist on opening spring training under these circumstances, a fan attends, then gets sick and dies.

            Comment


            • #7
              I posted in a previous thread that I didn't know how spring training would begin on time, given what's been going on in Arizona. This story is something I've been expecting.

              You can't hold spring training in an Arizona city without the city's support.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lipman 1 View Post

                Well given the circumstances, the number of cases, the number of people dying, it would make sense to me for both sides to agree to postpone and start the season on May 1. That would mean spring training starting around March 15-20.

                The other important point this letter does, is put the Mayor's feelings "on the record" and potentially protect them from liability issues should MLB insist on opening spring training under these circumstances, a fan attends, then gets sick and dies.
                Liability from what? A mayor cannot be sued for decisions he or she makes in their capacity as Mayor because there are immunities which attach. Or are you referring to political liabilities where the mayor makes a decision that pisses off the voters and they elect someone else?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dumpjerry View Post

                  Liability from what? A mayor cannot be sued for decisions he or she makes in their capacity as Mayor because there are immunities which attach. Or are you referring to political liabilities where the mayor makes a decision that pisses off the voters and they elect someone else?
                  Probably both. I don't know the nuances of the law but what I do know is that today someone is always suing someone for something. And of course the political ramifications are always there as well.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lipman 1 View Post

                    Probably both. I don't know the nuances of the law but what I do know is that today someone is always suing someone for something. And of course the political ramifications are always there as well.
                    If someone tries to sue a mayor for not asking MLB to delay SP, the lawyer would be subject to severe sanctions. Municipalities and states have legal immunity from lawsuits for doing their job.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lipman 1 View Post

                      Probably both. I don't know the nuances of the law but what I do know is that today someone is always suing someone for something. And of course the political ramifications are always there as well.
                      Who among us hasn't been the victim of a frivolous lawsuit for doing our jobs? Still, I covered municipal government in a Cactus League city, for a time when it was a Cactus League city, I can't imagine any legal liability an Arizona mayor would face. In Glendale, the city probably faces more litigation risk from holding spring training even in the best of times. The city owns Camelback Ranch, and there are always liabilities with city-owned properties, which is why cities pay for insurance and a legal department.

                      The White Sox and Dodgers lease the use of the complex, but their use has to conform with federal, state and municipal law, as well as public safety, an aspect that doesn't require laws to be established for cities to legally curtail spring training.. Baseball teams don't have the property rights that property owners do. And spraining baseball doesn't mean nearly as much to Glendale as it did to Sarasota, or even cities in the old Cactus League, before it evolved into the Phoenix-Metro league. The Padres meant a lot to Yuma for 25 years, especially with San Diego just an easy three-hour interstate drive away. The Padres got a lot of concessions for their month in Yuma. Glendale hosts NFL and NHL teams. Because of their geography, they have even have had a Super Bowl. (I don't follow football, but I stayed at the hotel next door to the football stadium that looks like a nuclear reactor wrapped in duct tape rising from the desert. There was at least one Super Bowl played in Arizona before the thing in Glendale was built.).

                      If baseball wanted to do a spring-training bubbles instead of the Cactus League, sort of like the White Sox training in French Lick, Indiana, during World War II, the Dodgers would be better off going back to Dodger Town in Vero Beach, Florida, if it still exists. The last time I was at Camelback Ranch, there wasn't any proximate lodging and the development across the street hadn't yet developed. Players, coaches and staff could be bused daily from one of the empty hotels or resorts. I can think of a few candidates that are probably empty, and that might be a more attractive alternative for a city having to deal with both public health and its decimated tourist industry. (At least Arizona passed a law to collect state and local sales taxes from out-of-state online purchases.) You wouldn't need to go to a city with amenities if you're going to live in a bubble. You could even use an abandoned spring training complex in Tucson or Yuma. I don't know what the weather is will be like in Schaumburg in March.

                      It's entirely possible that if baseball wants to start the season on time, they will have to recognize they can't simply go back to business as usual, restricting attendance and perhaps going without spring-training exhibition games.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TDog View Post

                        Who among us hasn't been the victim of a frivolous lawsuit for doing our jobs? Still, I covered municipal government in a Cactus League city, for a time when it was a Cactus League city, I can't imagine any legal liability an Arizona mayor would face. In Glendale, the city probably faces more litigation risk from holding spring training even in the best of times. The city owns Camelback Ranch, and there are always liabilities with city-owned properties, which is why cities pay for insurance and a legal department.

                        The White Sox and Dodgers lease the use of the complex, but their use has to conform with federal, state and municipal law, as well as public safety, an aspect that doesn't require laws to be established for cities to legally curtail spring training.. Baseball teams don't have the property rights that property owners do. And spraining baseball doesn't mean nearly as much to Glendale as it did to Sarasota, or even cities in the old Cactus League, before it evolved into the Phoenix-Metro league. The Padres meant a lot to Yuma for 25 years, especially with San Diego just an easy three-hour interstate drive away. The Padres got a lot of concessions for their month in Yuma. Glendale hosts NFL and NHL teams. Because of their geography, they have even have had a Super Bowl. (I don't follow football, but I stayed at the hotel next door to the football stadium that looks like a nuclear reactor wrapped in duct tape rising from the desert. There was at least one Super Bowl played in Arizona before the thing in Glendale was built.).

                        If baseball wanted to do a spring-training bubbles instead of the Cactus League, sort of like the White Sox training in French Lick, Indiana, during World War II, the Dodgers would be better off going back to Dodger Town in Vero Beach, Florida, if it still exists. The last time I was at Camelback Ranch, there wasn't any proximate lodging and the development across the street hadn't yet developed. Players, coaches and staff could be bused daily from one of the empty hotels or resorts. I can think of a few candidates that are probably empty, and that might be a more attractive alternative for a city having to deal with both public health and its decimated tourist industry. (At least Arizona passed a law to collect state and local sales taxes from out-of-state online purchases.) You wouldn't need to go to a city with amenities if you're going to live in a bubble. You could even use an abandoned spring training complex in Tucson or Yuma. I don't know what the weather is will be like in Schaumburg in March.

                        It's entirely possible that if baseball wants to start the season on time, they will have to recognize they can't simply go back to business as usual, restricting attendance and perhaps going without spring-training exhibition games.
                        There is a world of difference between negligent acts and ministerial acts. Policy decisions are ministerial. Allowing an unsafe condition on property exist until it causes an injury is usually negligence (depending on the facts).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Athletic claims that according to their sources, an unnamed MLB official encouraged the cactus league and AZ mayors to write the letter, apparently in the hopes of pressuring players to accept a shorter season that starts later, which the owners want but MLBPA does not.

                          https://theathletic.com/2347389/2021...y-sources-say/

                          MLB and the cactus league are of course denying this.

                          Critics of delaying the season are pointing out that some of these cities are allowing college and pro games with fans in attendance.
                          "Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but those who stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only after they are ruined."
                          -- Thucydides

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dumpjerry View Post

                            There is a world of difference between negligent acts and ministerial acts. Policy decisions are ministerial. Allowing an unsafe condition on property exist until it causes an injury is usually negligence (depending on the facts).
                            In my effort to avoid anything political, I probably failed to make my point clear. The mayor, particularly under Arizona law, wouldn't be personally liable for anything resulting from contracted use of the Glendale-owned baseball complex.and any restrictions on the use. Glendale has a city-manager government. The city manager would effectively run the city, bringing things to the mayor and council for approval. Most Arizona cities operate that way, without a strong executive mayor. Cactus League mayors in all likelihood would be asking to delay spring training on recommendation of municipal staffs as part of the Valley's overall health concerns. I don't see this as having anything to do with protection from litigation.

                            I also see the letter as an initial position by the cities. If baseball voluntarily delays spring training, there won't be a need for the cities to exercise contract clauses that restrict baseball's use of the city-owned facilities. This may have more to do with contract law than tort law, or liability. I don't think the mayors' letter was part of an effort to limit personal liability, either legally or politically.

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