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Lovable Loser Laments Too?

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  • Lovable Loser Laments Too?

    I noticed no Urinal, so I'm posting this here.

    Having run out of DVRed shows, I went to ESPN+ and watched Catching Hell all the way through for the first time. Mrs FJ was a north side fan at that time, before I flipped her in 2005. She asked me what Sox fans thought about the whole affair. I characterized Bartman as a hero to Sox fans, some of us wanting him to throw out the first pitch at the 2004 Sox Home Opener. I also did the math in my head and realized Steve Bartman is 42 or 43 years old today.

  • #2
    What happened to Bartman was terrible. He's at been able to visit the ballpark a few times. It's very sad he was treated so poorly but the organization did later apologize to him. He went viral for bad reasons before it became common.
    Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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    • #3
      Originally posted by voodoochile View Post
      What happened to Bartman was terrible. He's at been able to visit the ballpark a few times. It's very sad he was treated so poorly but the organization did later apologize to him. He went viral for bad reasons before it became common.
      Agree completely. The documentary really showed how ugly that crowd became. All the things that happened after the foul ball that could have ended the inning were totally forgotten.

      I blame a lot of what happened to Bartman on Fox and their repeated coverage of the foul ball play.

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      • #4
        One can only imagine how much worst it would have been for him in this era of social media.

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        • #5
          Wasn't John Kass at the Trib also instrumental in outing Bartman for the incident?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Rocky View Post
            One can only imagine how much worst it would have been for him in this era of social media.
            About 10 years ago I read somewhere that Moises Alou admitted that he would have never caught that ball. He could have saved Bartman tons of grief if he would have said something that night.

            Found this link.
            hdttps://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3324343
            Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 04-27-2020, 02:25 PM.
            Batting in the second position for the White Sox, number 2, the second baseman Nelson Fox.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by FielderJones View Post

              Agree completely. The documentary really showed how ugly that crowd became. All the things that happened after the foul ball that could have ended the inning were totally forgotten.

              I blame a lot of what happened to Bartman on Fox and their repeated coverage of the foul ball play.
              Still, he brought it on himself. A fan in that situation shouldn't be putting himself in front of the team by going after the foul ball. That's true on opening day. Five outs away from your team's first World Series in more than half a century, the consequences are extreme, and there's no excuse. Any coverage of the game would have made an issue out of it. It was the turning point of the game, for that matter, the Cubs' season. I was covering a city planning commission in Alaska that night, and the planning commissioners were talking about the still unnamed "stupid fan." Any Chicago newspaper would have been irresponsible not to "out" him. Steve Bartman wasn't an innocent. He made a very public mistake that seems to have destroyed the Cubs mentally, (which doesn't speak well for the Cubs, of course). Not covering it wouldn't have made it go away.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by TDog View Post

                Still, he brought it on himself. A fan in that situation shouldn't be putting himself in front of the team by going after the foul ball. That's true on opening day. Five outs away from your team's first World Series in more than half a century, the consequences are extreme, and there's no excuse. Any coverage of the game would have made an issue out of it. It was the turning point of the game, for that matter, the Cubs' season. I was covering a city planning commission in Alaska that night, and the planning commissioners were talking about the still unnamed "stupid fan." Any Chicago newspaper would have been irresponsible not to "out" him. Steve Bartman wasn't an innocent. He made a very public mistake that seems to have destroyed the Cubs mentally, (which doesn't speak well for the Cubs, of course). Not covering it wouldn't have made it go away.
                He wasn't the only fan going for it. He was the scapegoat.
                The Cubs had their Ace on the mound. He should have gotten the next guy out. Instead he threw a tantrum and couldn't do his job. His manager should have pulled him and he didn't. They should have gone the next game with Kid-K, Mr. 20 strikes out, on the mound. They didn't. What there should be no excuse for is how the Cubs choked.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rocky View Post

                  He wasn't the only fan going for it. He was the scapegoat.
                  The Cubs had their Ace on the mound. He should have gotten the next guy out. Instead he threw a tantrum and couldn't do his job. His manager should have pulled him and he didn't. They should have gone the next game with Kid-K, Mr. 20 strikes out, on the mound. They didn't. What there should be no excuse for is how the Cubs choked.
                  All of that is why his story is compelling. The fans who hassled him in the stands during the game weren't influenced by the media. Certainly, if Alou not catching a foul ball at the stands in the left-field corner was all it took for the Cubs to collapse physically, mentally and emotionally, that night and the next, they didn't belong in the the World Series anyway. The fans' treatment of Steve Bartman shows the true fan base for what it was. Bartman wasn't an innocent. The team and their fans proved to be unlovable, whiney losers.

                  Don't blame the media for exposing that.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TDog View Post

                    All of that is why his story is compelling. The fans who hassled him in the stands during the game weren't influenced by the media. Certainly, if Alou not catching a foul ball at the stands in the left-field corner was all it took for the Cubs to collapse physically, mentally and emotionally, that night and the next, they didn't belong in the the World Series anyway. The fans' treatment of Steve Bartman shows the true fan base for what it was. Bartman wasn't an innocent. The team and their fans proved to be unlovable, whiney losers.

                    Don't blame the media for exposing that.
                    There are TVs in the stands, on the concourses and other places. The TV feed kept cutting to him as things got worse and worse. Eventually the Cubs stationed security personnel a the top of his aisle and near him as the seats around him emptied out. There are reports of other fans being turned away at the top of the aisle after telling the ushers, "I want to go kick that guys ass".

                    To say the media didn't impact the fans' reaction to him during the game is simply false.
                    Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by voodoochile View Post

                      There are TVs in the stands, on the concourses and other places. The TV feed kept cutting to him as things got worse and worse. Eventually the Cubs stationed security personnel a the top of his aisle and near him as the seats around him emptied out. There are reports of other fans being turned away at the top of the aisle after telling the ushers, "I want to go kick that guys ass".

                      To say the media didn't impact the fans' reaction to him during the game is simply false.
                      But the media wasn't the problem, as much as it's fashionable for people to want it to be. Television couldn't treat it as if it hadn't happened. There is no question Steve Bartman affected the game. Ignoring it would have been and would continue to be irresponsible. He shouldn't be held responsible for losing the game. That goes to the team that fell apart, gave up -- the pitcher, the infield, the manager being unprepared to deal with it, not understanding that it was a game of people. Collapses are like that, whether it was the Red Sox in 1986 or the death spiral of the Cubs in 1969.

                      Maybe people expect the media to be reporting only what makes the Cubs look good, but isn't the media's problem that Steve Barman and the Cubs and their fans screwed up. Sports journalism can be an oxymoronic term, but it is not the media's responsibility to perpetuate the myth that the Cubs and their fans are primarily lovable above all else.We're so damned lovable we throw home run balls back, but five outs away from the World Series our left fielder is screaming at the umpire because one of our lovable fans wanted a ball he thought he would catch. He's so upset that the team falls apart that night and again the next. Then everyone blames the ill-behaved fan for the team falling apart.

                      This is tragic in a Shakespearean sense, Bartman's tragedy was brought on by his actions. But if you despise the Cubs, know this is a more accurate reflection of Cubs fandom, it plays out as a comedy.

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                      • #12
                        TV coverage did not need to continually plaster his face all over the screen for the final hour or so of their coverage. In so doing they ruined his life and let the Cubs off the hook for a historic meltdown.
                        Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by voodoochile View Post
                          TV coverage did not need to continually plaster his face all over the screen for the final hour or so of their coverage. In so doing they ruined his life and let the Cubs off the hook for a historic meltdown.
                          Blaming television for ruining Steve Bartman's life isn't much different than blaming Steve Bartman for losing the Cubs' season. He did a stupid thing at a critical time on live television.

                          Perhaps Cubs fans were were more lovable when their scapegoat was an actual goat, if not the curse-laying owner of the goat, but it's not the job of the media to make the Cubs and their fans look good.

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                          • #14
                            Ah, the first official disagreement on the new site.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hitmen77 View Post
                              Ah, the first official disagreement on the new site.
                              Now it feels like home.

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