Sox Off Season Thread 2022-23

[voodoochile]

So that ended... on to the off-season...

FYI, Cairo told Fegan that the Sox agreed to Abreu's request not to play or have them give him a "send-off" moment in yesterday's game. I think that's pretty clear he's already been informed he's not coming back.

[shingo10]

His production and durability will not be easily replaced if this is true. Hahn better have a coherent plan to address what they are losing from Abreu. Trying to mix and match for production has been a disaster in the outfield and I don't have any faith it would be better at 1B. Sox have been extremely fortuante to have such great 1B and I sure hope they aren't taking the positoin for granted.

[Frater Perdurabo]

It’s a shame that the Sox couldn’t build a sustained run of excellence around Abreu. We can appreciate his excellence while also recognizing it’s time to pass the torch at a position where the Sox have sustained a run of excellent going back to Frank Thomas. And I think Vaughn realizes he has big shoes to fill.

While it is empirically true that the problems with this organization originate directly with ownership, additional regurgitation of the same tired - though true - talking points about ownership is both exhausting and boring. It ultimately reduces to all of us waiting for a billionaire octogenarian hermit to do the most common boring thing that we all ultimately are destined to do.

I’m much more interested to see:

1. Oscar Colas bring balance to the lineup, competence against RHP, and better outfield defense;

2. What Hahn can do to purge additional veteran ballast (Leury, Pollock, etc.) that he himself acquired, that is otherwise holding back the roster with abject mediocrity, if not worse;

3. A manager and coaching staff who will both individually coach up specific players to, and also make the Sox frequently and consistently as a team, practice fielding fundamentals, ideally on a daily basis - during both spring training and also the regular season.

[Bobby Thigpen]

I really struggle to see how people that want to keep Abreu and jettison Vaughn can rectify that in their heads. Has Jose been fantastic? Yes. Was he still productive this year? Yes, in a diminished capacity? Does he have a role somewhere next year? Yes.

BUT, he's going to be 36. We think. He's not falling apart, but his production has fallen. He's trending down in some pretty tell tale stats as far as age is concerned. Vaughn is 24, immensely cheaper and pretty much had the same production as Jose while learning yet another unnatural position.

I get the nostalgia, but it's time.

[DeployEloy]

I agree, and it will be very tough to see him go. Still, I feel that putting Vaughn will keep him healthy enough for a full season as an offensive monster. I also agree that he (Jose) can't be the only of his type to move this offseason. Would not surprise me if one or two of Eloy, Sheets, Burger, and Grandal is moved to ease the potential 1b/DH logjam.

Regarding Frater's #2, part of me hopes they hang onto Pollock as a 4th OF. I am up for eating the rest of Leury's contract and declining Harrison's option, going younger, however.

The thing I struggle with at the moment is what this team needs to do about an incredibly expensive bullpen that doesn't show its dominance consistently. I really hope that is addressed in order to reallocate funds in other needed areas.

[whitesox5187]

I really struggle to see how people that want to keep Abreu and jettison Vaughn can rectify that in their heads. Has Jose been fantastic? Yes. Was he still productive this year? Yes, in a diminished capacity? Does he have a role somewhere next year? Yes.

BUT, he's going to be 36. We think. He's not falling apart, but his production has fallen. He's trending down in some pretty tell tale stats as far as age is concerned. Vaughn is 24, immensely cheaper and pretty much had the same production as Jose while learning yet another unnatural position.

I get the nostalgia, but it's time.

Here's what gives me pause: Vaughn's second-half line was .234/.285/.381 with a .666 OPS.

Right now it's not clear to me that the White Sox have someone who can pick up the baton from Abreu. If the Sox can get a decent return for Vaughn, they might need to consider it because I'm not sure who else they have that they can get much of a return from.

[Frater Perdurabo]

I agree, and it will be very tough to see him go. Still, I feel that putting Vaughn will keep him healthy enough for a full season as an offensive monster. I also agree that he (Jose) can't be the only of his type to move this offseason. Would not surprise me if one or two of Eloy, Sheets, Burger, and Grandal is moved to ease the potential 1b/DH logjam.

Regarding Frater's #2, part of me hopes they hang onto Pollock as a 4th OF. I am up for eating the rest of Leury's contract and declining Harrison's option, going younger, however.

The thing I struggle with at the moment is what this team needs to do about an incredibly expensive bullpen that doesn't show its dominance consistently. I really hope that is addressed in order to reallocate funds in other needed areas.

These are all great points. I too think Pollock can be a platoon OF against LHP because his salary is already sunk cost; trading him away would require taking back another bad contract.

Relatedly, I want one of the coaches on the new manager’s staff to be an excellent outfield instructor who is a native/fluent Spanish speaker, who can teach Eloy to be a better left fielder. Then, against RHP I want Eloy in LF and Sheets at DH, and against LHP I want Eloy at DH and Pollock (if he’s not dealt) in LF.

[notjimrose]

Here's what gives me pause: Vaughn's second-half line was .234/.285/.381 with a .666 OPS.

Right now it's not clear to me that the White Sox have someone who can pick up the baton from Abreu. If the Sox can get a decent return for Vaughn, they might need to consider it because I'm not sure who else they have that they can get much of a return from.

You have to wonder how much of Vaughn's tailing off in the second half the last two years is due to his playing out of position and his body is not keeping up?

[Dumpjerry]

During yesterday's game, they kept reminding us of next year's schedule. At one point, the scoreboard said the season opens in Houston and they hope it will be Cease vs. Verlander.

That is probably the Opening Day matchup.

[Kobo]

Here's what gives me pause: Vaughn's second-half line was .234/.285/.381 with a .666 OPS.

Right now it's not clear to me that the White Sox have someone who can pick up the baton from Abreu. If the Sox can get a decent return for Vaughn, they might need to consider it because I'm not sure who else they have that they can get much of a return from.

Abreu hit his 14th HR of the season on 8/3. He hit his 15th HR of the season on 9/13. He went 38 games without hitting a homerun. Remember, he was hitting either 3 or 4 in the lineup.

[GoSoxMMV]

Maybe this offseason, the Sox FO can get it into their thick skulls that this team needs more than just a Josh Harrison or AJ Pollock-type pick ups to make them real contenders. Over the last season and a half, this has been a .500 team. That's enough games to show that this mediocre play isn't just a fluke or bad luck.

Was 2021 the peak year of this so-called contention window? Or is Sox brass pissed off that all they've been able to muster these last 1.5 seasons is .500 ball? Unfortunately, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FO cries poor this offseason and blames lack of fan support for their inability to make a big splash in the FA market. It's the White Sox way!

As far as Abreu goes, he's been great, but this the time to move on. Thank you for your service and for the 2020 MVP season. The 3-year deal the Sox gave him wasn't so bad after all despite all the outrage over it on WSI. But at 36, we wouldn't be able to count on him to give us much next year. Time to make Vaughn our full-time 1B. Not having confidence in him won't make Abreu any more effective for us next year.

[Noneck]

Was 2021 the peak year of this so-called contention window? Or is Sox brass pissed off that all they've been able to muster these last 1.5 seasons is .500 ball? Unfortunately, it really wouldn't surprise me if the FO cries poor this offseason and blames lack of fan support for their inability to make a big splash in the FA market. It's the White Sox way!

How could they possibly do this when they still have the Machado money ready to spent at the right time? Yea maybe it’s not that time yet.

[kufram]

I have to wonder if there are reasons other than just money that the White Sox can't signed the big name, big money free agents? I also wonder if a couple or three very savvy GMs could get together and look at moving TA. Not sure we have that kind of GM, though. A change of scenery might be the best thing for the player and what a player like that could bring could offset what he takes away with him.

My only fear of moving Abreu is losing who, to me, appears to have as much value in the clubhouse and as a leader as anyone in the game. I think it might still be possible to find a middle ground to keep him around for another year.

[Chez]

My prediction is that Jose Abreu will hit 35 homers next season for the Sox. The Boston Red Sox.

[voodoochile]

My prediction is that Jose Abreu will hit 35 homers next season for the Sox. The Boston Red Sox.

Nah, but maybe 45 doubles...