What would it take for an in-season managerial change?

[chisox83]

Steering clear of an off the field issue that could force JR's hand, is there a scenario where the TRL is shown the door in-season? Personally, I can't see it. A friend countered with, "what if they are still kicking the ball around and 15 under at the break?" First, I'd be surprised, but second, if it got that bad, I'd see him stepping away for some reason or the other...not being publicly let go. Now maybe he'd be given a nudge internally, but I'm not so sure. I just can't picture it.

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

[voodoochile]

Where a 3 game slide and a .500 record after 12 games is enough for people to completely lose it...

[KenBerryGrab]

Tony's not going anywhere.

[longtimefan]

Hahn will never be able to remove TLR. The only way Tony goes is if he decides to leave.

[ChiTownTrojan]

The only way La Russa is not finishing the season as the Sox manager is if he steps down for health or personal reasons or something like that.

It's not La Russa's fault that the Sox have had so many defensive problems in Cleveland. That's silly.

[fungo bat]

La Russa isn't going anywhere, regardless of what happens this season. He is Reinsdorf's hand-picked manager for better or for worse.

[notjimrose]

Funnily enough, Ken Rosenthal had an article this morning on The Athletic where he noted that, because of the reliance on analytics to make game decisions, GMs don't feel that an in-season managerial change makes much sense anymore and there hasn't been one since 2018.

https://theathletic.com/3264941/2022/04/22/mlb-managers-under-scrutiny/?amp=1

[LITTLE NELL]

Where a 3 game slide and a .500 record after 12 games is enough for people to completely lose it...

Don't forget that the second half of 2021 was anything but stellar and then the playoffs came and the Sox were out in 4 games.
I'm not going to be a hypocrite, I was against the hiring of TLR from the get go. I don't think he's getting the best out of these guys, why I don't know, maybe he's having trouble relating. I know since the second half of last year we have seen some strange moves by TLR. Let's face it, JR isn't going to fire him so I'm hoping that sometime soon he steps down on his own and retires for good.

[Lipman 1]

Don't forget that the second half of 2021 was anything but stellar and then the playoffs came and the Sox were out in 4 games.
I'm not going to be a hypcrite, I was against the hiring of TLR from the get go. I don't think he's getting the best out of these guys, why I don't know, maybe he's having trouble relating. I know since the second half of last year we have seen some strange moves by TLR. Let's face it, JR isn't going to fire him so I'm hoping that sometime soon he steps down on his own and retires for good.

You have to understand with Tony "experimenting" has always been a part of his DNA.

Remember the controversial decision to put a slumping Carlton Fisk into the #2 spot in the batting order in May 1983? Put a power hitter into a bat control spot in the lineup?

It worked out of course, big time, and Tony took the philosophy of having a power hitter hitting second with him to Oakland and St. Louis with guys like Dave Henderson and Brian Jordan.

Of course the difference is Fisk was a future Hall of Famer with a long track record of success who was having a tough stretch.

Garcia is a nice utility guy who shouldn't be playing more than twice a week.

That being said the only way JR allows TLR to be fired is if he is no longer the owner, he won't do that to him again. TLR himself may step away but he won't be fired.

[shingo10]

Where a 3 game slide and a .500 record after 12 games is enough for people to completely lose it...

It's 4 game slide but I really don't feel like people are losing it here...it's perfectly fine to have some concerns about things that reared their ugly heads so far in the beginning of the season. As others have stated Tony hasn't done himself any favors since the second half of the season. He decided to approach October by resting up the guys and hoping they would turn it on when the playoffs started. It didn't work and then there were some real questionable moves in the postseason particularly in game 2 in Houston.

He won't be fired, nor should he be at this point, but this was such an out of the box hire that it's fair to wonder how the team would respond to some of the more traditional candidates that were out there at the time. And I mean traditional in the sense of today's style of play.

[LITTLE NELL]

Hahn will never be able to remove TLR. The only way Tony goes is if he decides to leave.

I'd love to know Hahn's true feelings on the hiring of TLR.

[Lipman 1]

It's 4 game slide but I really don't feel like people are losing it here...it's perfectly fine to have some concerns about things that reared their ugly heads so far in the beginning of the season. As others have stated Tony hasn't done himself any favors since the second half of the season. He decided to approach October by resting up the guys and hoping they would turn it on when the playoffs started. It didn't work and then there were some real questionable moves in the postseason particularly in game 2 in Houston.

He won't be fired, nor should he be at this point, but this was such an out of the box hire that it's fair to wonder how the team would respond to some of the more traditional candidates that were out there at the time. And I mean traditional in the sense of today's style of play.

Very good analysis.

[ChiTownTrojan]

I think Tony has done a very good job with the pitching staff thus far. As for the offense, as always most of the blame is on the players.

If La Russa has shown us anything, it's that he places long-term goals ahead of individual games. That's when you get to see some of the weird stuff like Leury batting 3rd and Vaughn sitting for Haseley throughout the course of the season. Those clearly aren't "win now" moves, even La Russa knows that.

I suspect that one of the reasons he's taking this approach is because the Sox are still far and away the best team in the Central. In the end I expect them to win the division by 5+ games. But some of the day-to-day might be frustrating along the way.

[StanBahnsen72]

I have been a huge fan of LaRussa's since the very beginning for his managerial career- I still see him taking that 1979 team and having them play .500 ball after taking over from Kessinger as one of the more impressive managerial performances I've seen.

I was also supportive of his return for a 2nd tenure as manager- BUT, the Cleveland series sounded a few alarms for me- the overall lack of "game readiness" after 2 days off due to weather, the sloppy baserunning, the plate approach (1st pitch swinging), the obsession with Leury, the weird batting orders- there COULD be a method to his madness- he might be very skeptical about Harrison holding up over the course of the season at age 35, so really getting Leury ready for extended time at 2nd base, he might also be concerned about Eloy, Robert and Pollock holding up and (unfortunately) thinking we may need Haseley more than we expected- we'll see- but this is the least faith I've had in TLR as a White Sox manager in either one of his stints.

[longtimefan]

I'd love to know Hahn's true feelings on the hiring of TLR.

Obviously, Hahn will never make a honest, public statement on the TLR hiring (at least, while he's still in baseball). However, you have to imagine Hahn was (is??) not too happy with TLR being selected as the manager. RH, as the GM, is supposed to be in charge of personnel selections. The rumors at the time of the new manager search never mentioned Tony as Rick's favorite candidate. So I would imagine, Rick "bit-the bullet", did as he was told, stated publicly how glad he was Tony was the next manager, and yet was pissed. This is my major compliant with Reinsdorf. People chew on him because he's so cheap. However, I hate that he keeps interfering with day-to-day operations. JR has the right to interject himself into player selection, manager selection, etc. But that is a poor practice. KW and RH should run the show with JR setting the budget and team goals. If JR is not happy with the results, then he can hold his leaders accountable.