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  • JR Speaks...

    For the first time in years Jerry Reinsdorf spoke with the media (and took a shot at a certain National League club):

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-s...n-with-rebuild

  • #2
    “Our fans are probably the most knowledgeable fans in baseball. Much more knowledgeable than the fans of some other teams in the other league.”
    😂

    I guess I’ll take it. It’s better than Ozzie accusing us of pissing on the statues.

    Comment


    • #3
      The title surprised me. JR claims he was always in on the rebuild. However, I read an article several years back that JR and KW balked at a rebuild and Hahn had to convinced him. Oh well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by longtimefan View Post
        The title surprised me. JR claims he was always in on the rebuild. However, I read an article several years back that JR and KW balked at a rebuild and Hahn had to convinced him. Oh well.
        As I recall, Hahn wanted to start the rebuild a few years earlier, but JR and KW said, no let's go for it. When that didn't work then they said, go ahead. JR maybe glossing over the initial reply and only responding to once the rebuild started.
        Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



        Comment


        • #5
          His comments about TLR make it seem as if the handling of the pitching staff was a bone of contention in the past...possibly the weird strategy used by Renteria during game 3 in Oakland was fresh in his mind. Somewhat surprising though since Dave Duncan usually gets the credit for La Russa's past pitching staffs.

          Comment


          • #6
            TLR is famous for his pitching decisions. TLR is arguably the reason that the 3 batter rule exists now, he basically pioneered bringing in relief pitchers to face one guy. Ozzie was mentored by TLR in the 80's and handled his bullpen similarly.
            "Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but those who stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only after they are ruined."
            -- Thucydides

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HomeFish View Post
              TLR is famous for his pitching decisions. TLR is arguably the reason that the 3 batter rule exists now, he basically pioneered bringing in relief pitchers to face one guy. Ozzie was mentored by TLR in the 80's and handled his bullpen similarly.
              I hope like hell it pays off for us starting October 7th. Been a mixed bag to this point.

              Comment


              • #8
                2012 was a calamity so they immediately began a rebuild - actually a retool, which is precisely how this org. SHOULD approach things when things get out of sync. (Pirates and Royals rebuild; Sox retool). But then they made these asinine trades for slightly above average veterans like Frazier and Samardzija, and when that didn't work they made some desperation moves that just took the bottom out. The FO may not have wanted to 'go for it" but they executed the "go for it" trades and those trades were botched, both incoming and outgoing talent completely misevaluated, and were an absolute disaster.
                Last edited by Tragg; 09-25-2021, 09:02 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tragg View Post
                  2012 was a calamity so they immediately began a rebuild - actually a retool, which is precisely how this org. SHOULD approach things when things get out of synch. But then they made these asinine trades for slightly above average players like Frazier and Samardzija, and when that didn't work they made some desperation moves that just took the bottom out.
                  Anyway they only reason they had to do this rebuild was because they didn't finish the 2013-14 retool like they should have.
                  I do always enjoy discussing/debating about this - I’m an historian, after all. 😜

                  I think 2012 is better described as a dead cat bounce; the bottom fell out in 2013.

                  I agree that several of the trades of the 2012-2016 period were terrible. Let’s say we undo all the “bad” trades and signings of the period:

                  Undo the Samardzija trade: We keep Bassitt and Semien.

                  Undo the Frazier trade: We keep Montas.

                  Undo the Shields trade: We keep Tatis.

                  Lets also say that each of these players’ careers with the hypothetical Sox unfolds exactly as it has in reality: Montas and Bassitt really start to produce in 2018, Semien and Tatis break out in 2019.

                  Under that scenario, do we trade Sale for Moncada and Kopech? Do we trade Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning (who turns into Lynn)? Do we trade Quintana for Eloy and Cease? Do we sign Robert?

                  I agree that a core of Bassitt, Montas, Semien, and Tatis would be really good. Adding Anderson and a healthy Rodon makes it even better. We probably would have lost more games 2014-2016, and thus drafted higher in 2015-2017. Maybe higher draft picks in those years would yield better contributors than Fulmer, Collins, and Burger.

                  But in order to build around that core with the pieces we have now, the Sox still would have had to trade Sale, Eaton, and Quintana at their peak value in 2017, or they would have had to know for certain that Bassitt, Montas, Semien and Tatis would peak in 2019 just as the contracts for Sale, Eaton, and Quintana were about to expire.

                  In other words, it’s either trying to catch lighting in a bottle for a 2018-2019 window, or dealing away Sale, Eaton, and Quintana anyway.

                  Yes, of course, constructing a hypothetical team with Bassitt, Montas, Giolito, Cease, Rodon, Kopech, Dunning, Tatis, Anderson, Semien, Moncada, Abreu, Eloy and Robert, plus higher draft picks in 2015-2017, is a lot of fun.

                  But if the dumb trades hadn’t been made, I’m not sure all the good trades would have been made.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post

                    I do always enjoy discussing/debating about this - I’m an historian, after all. 😜

                    I think 2012 is better described as a dead cat bounce; the bottom fell out in 2013.

                    I agree that several of the trades of the 2012-2016 period were terrible. Let’s say we undo all the “bad” trades and signings of the period:

                    Undo the Samardzija trade: We keep Bassitt and Semien.

                    Undo the Frazier trade: We keep Montas.

                    Undo the Shields trade: We keep Tatis.

                    Lets also say that each of these players’ careers with the hypothetical Sox unfolds exactly as it has in reality: Montas and Bassitt really start to produce in 2018, Semien and Tatis break out in 2019.

                    Under that scenario, do we trade Sale for Moncada and Kopech? Do we trade Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, and Dunning (who turns into Lynn)? Do we trade Quintana for Eloy and Cease? Do we sign Robert?

                    I agree that a core of Bassitt, Montas, Semien, and Tatis would be really good. Adding Anderson and a healthy Rodon makes it even better. We probably would have lost more games 2014-2016, and thus drafted higher in 2015-2017. Maybe higher draft picks in those years would yield better contributors than Fulmer, Collins, and Burger.

                    But in order to build around that core with the pieces we have now, the Sox still would have had to trade Sale, Eaton, and Quintana at their peak value in 2017, or they would have had to know for certain that Bassitt, Montas, Semien and Tatis would peak in 2019 just as the contracts for Sale, Eaton, and Quintana were about to expire.

                    In other words, it’s either trying to catch lighting in a bottle for a 2018-2019 window, or dealing away Sale, Eaton, and Quintana anyway.

                    Yes, of course, constructing a hypothetical team with Bassitt, Montas, Giolito, Cease, Rodon, Kopech, Dunning, Tatis, Anderson, Semien, Moncada, Abreu, Eloy and Robert, plus higher draft picks in 2015-2017, is a lot of fun.

                    But if the dumb trades hadn’t been made, I’m not sure all the good trades would have been made.
                    And I would have TA as our SS and Tatis playing RF. Semien at 2B. What that means is we probably would not have drafted Madrigal. Robert is definitely CF.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Instead of living and dwelling on past failures right after the Sox made the post-season in back-to-back years, I'm more interested in what JR and the front office do going forward. We've gone through the rebuild and now the team has made the post-season in 2020 and 2021. Time to move on and look toward the future.

                      This team is now good enough to make the postseason, but maybe not good enough to go deep into the playoffs. Their goal should be to make this team AL favorites going into next season. I want them to make the money available to get a real RF for next year. No more half-assing or doing it on the cheap like they did with Mazara and Eaton. Get a decent back of rotation starter (to go along with Lynn, Gio, Cease, and Kopech) if Rodon isn't coming back regardless of what is owed to Keuchel next year. It's not like they need to fill 4 or 5 holes in their roster, but I'll be disappointed if 5th starter is Lopez/Keuchel and 2B and RF are Hernandez and a revolving door of Sheets, Engel, and yet another retread acquisition. I can live with the underwhelming Hernandez at 2B if we sign someone like Starling Marte and get a decent backup C.
                      White Sox Division Titles: 1983, 1993, 2000, 2005, 2008, 2021

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by voodoochile View Post

                        As I recall, Hahn wanted to start the rebuild a few years earlier, but JR and KW said, no let's go for it. When that didn't work then they said, go ahead. JR maybe glossing over the initial reply and only responding to once the rebuild started.
                        Or, he is just lying.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tragg View Post
                          2012 was a calamity so they immediately began a rebuild - actually a retool, which is precisely how this org. SHOULD approach things when things get out of sync. (Pirates and Royals rebuild; Sox retool). But then they made these asinine trades for slightly above average veterans like Frazier and Samardzija, and when that didn't work they made some desperation moves that just took the bottom out. The FO may not have wanted to 'go for it" but they executed the "go for it" trades and those trades were botched, both incoming and outgoing talent completely misevaluated, and were an absolute disaster.
                          Yes, for the slightly above average Frazier they gave up the slightly above average Montas and two nobodies. How asinine.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hitmen77 View Post
                            Instead of living and dwelling on past failures right after the Sox made the post-season in back-to-back years, I'm more interested in what JR and the front office do going forward. We've gone through the rebuild and now the team has made the post-season in 2020 and 2021. Time to move on and look toward the future.

                            This team is now good enough to make the postseason, but maybe not good enough to go deep into the playoffs. Their goal should be to make this team AL favorites going into next season. I want them to make the money available to get a real RF for next year. No more half-assing or doing it on the cheap like they did with Mazara and Eaton. Get a decent back of rotation starter (to go along with Lynn, Gio, Cease, and Kopech) if Rodon isn't coming back regardless of what is owed to Keuchel next year. It's not like they need to fill 4 or 5 holes in their roster, but I'll be disappointed if 5th starter is Lopez/Keuchel and 2B and RF are Hernandez and a revolving door of Sheets, Engel, and yet another retread acquisition. I can live with the underwhelming Hernandez at 2B if we sign someone like Starling Marte and get a decent backup C.
                            Originally posted by WSox2021 View Post

                            Yes, for the slightly above average Frazier they gave up the slightly above average Montas and two nobodies. How asinine.
                            The Sox most obviously hit a major "reset" button after the 2016 season and decided to go a different direction than what was not working in the seasons leading up to that. Why fans on WSI continue to insist on wallowing in the 2013-2016 era trades is beyond me as those trades have little relevance on today's team and what they do going forward. Like Frater said earlier, not making those stupid trades would have set off a different chain of events and would result in a team that bears little resemblance (other than maybe TA and Abreu) to the reality that is the 2021 White Sox.

                            The Sox have just made the post-season in back to back seasons for the first time since.....ever! But the take-away is that we should never forget Frankie Montas.

                            Also, it's news to me that only the Royals and Pirates do rebuilds. Someone needs to send a memo to the Cubs and Astros that they never had to slog through multiple 90+ loss seasons to win a championship. That was all in their heads. Welcome to a middle ground between fact and fiction that lies between Sox fans' bitterness and enjoyment. A dimension where the Cubs and Astros did not have 100-loss seasons within the last 10 years. You've just crossed over to the Narrative Zone.
                            Last edited by GoSoxMMV; 09-27-2021, 09:29 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GoSoxMMV View Post



                              The Sox most obviously hit a major "reset" button after the 2016 season and decided to go a different direction than what was not working in the seasons leading up to that. Why fans on WSI continue to insist on wallowing in the 2013-2016 era trades is beyond me as those trades have little relevance on today's team and what they do going forward. Like Frater said earlier, not making those stupid trades would have set off a different chain of events and would result in a team that bears little resemblance (other than maybe TA and Abreu) to the reality that is the 2021 White Sox.

                              The Sox have just made the post-season in back to back seasons for the first time since.....ever! But the take-away is that we should never forget Frankie Montas.

                              Also, it's news to me that only the Royals and Pirates do rebuilds. Someone needs to send a memo to the Cubs and Astros that they never had to slog through multiple 90+ loss seasons to win a championship. That was all in their heads. Welcome to a middle ground between fact and fiction that lies between Sox fans' bitterness and enjoyment. A dimension where the Cubs and Astros did not have 100-loss seasons within the last 10 years. You've just crossed over to the Narrative Zone.
                              Sorry, I was being sarcastic and should have used teal. My point was that while Montas is having a very good season, his career numbers reflect a slightly above average pitcher, which is the way this poster described Frazier. The trade was not "asinine" (his word) but at worst a treading water move.

                              I too get tired of postings about the trades from 5-6 years ago and should probably just ignore them.

                              Comment

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