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Nick Madrigal base running

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  • Nick Madrigal base running

    I'm not judging but just unclear. Nick first tries to score from second and is tagged out at the plate. Then last night he tries to go from 1st to 3rd on a rocket single hit directly at Avi Garcia and is tagged out (and worse, hurt) at 3rd. Does anyone know why he is trying these near impossible extra bases efforts? Is he being waved on by the 3rd base coach? Is he doing it on his own? Or??

  • #2
    He was waved in by the 3rd base coach on the first one. Bad baserunning on making the first out at 3rd for the second.

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    • #3
      I suspect he's used to getting away with this type of aggressiveness in college/MiLB, but he'll have to more talented major league OFs.

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      • #4
        He was probably expecting Avi to be asleep and lob the ball back in just as he rounded 2nd. Would have been huge if he had made it, so arguably more worth the shot than the actual outcome would suggest. The out at home was on Capra, but Madrigal did round third very widely. It is refreshing to see that the Sox are not going exclusively station-to-station from now on?

        Four Sox Gold Gloves in 1960.
        One position player Gold Glove in the last 21 years.

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        • #5
          Part of the learning process.
          (Formerly asindc.)

          "I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)

          "We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." — George Orwell

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          • #6
            Originally posted by FourGoldGloves View Post
            He was probably expecting Avi to be asleep and lob the ball back in just as he rounded 2nd. Would have been huge if he had made it, so arguably more worth the shot than the actual outcome would suggest. The out at home was on Capra, but Madrigal did round third very widely. It is refreshing to see that the Sox are not going exclusively station-to-station from now on?
            The play was right in front of Avi, Madrigal never slowed up. Yes, would have been nice for it to be 1st and 3rd no outs, but it is not worth risking the first out to go from 2nd to 3rd ever.

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            • #7
              I'm not worried. He's learning about how things are at The Show and it never hurts (figuratively) to be aggressive. If he gets a reputation for being an aggressive baserunner, it will distract pitchers when he is on base and force infielders to pay attention to him and the pitch to the Plate.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
                I suspect he's used to getting away with this type of aggressiveness in college/MiLB, but he'll have to more talented major league OFs.
                Originally posted by JazzyCyclist View Post
                Part of the learning process.
                That's my thought as well....especially with last night's play. He's learning that there's a huge difference between the talent level in the majors vs. the minors. I don't know about the KC play. If he ran a stop sign from the coach, then that's on Nick. Otherwise, he was following the coach's signal there. Given his reputation for baseball acumen, I'm confident that base running blunders won't be an ongoing problem.

                It's too bad that yesterday's bad judgment on his part let to a potentially significant injury. Hopefully he's a minor issue of a jammed shoulder and he can return to action soon.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post

                  The play was right in front of Avi, Madrigal never slowed up. Yes, would have been nice for it to be 1st and 3rd no outs, but it is not worth risking the first out to go from 2nd to 3rd ever.
                  If he had slowed up it would never have worked. The timing had to be perfect and it almost was. Avi was a little slower than anticipated. I do like the idea and that he tried, not so much that he put his hand down in the slide.

                  I don't buy the blanket rule. In this case the chances of a wild pitch or passed ball were high, and the canonical strategy of moving the runner from second to third at the expense of an out becomes less attractive.
                  Last edited by FourGoldGloves; 08-05-2020, 12:09 PM.

                  Four Sox Gold Gloves in 1960.
                  One position player Gold Glove in the last 21 years.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FourGoldGloves View Post

                    If he had slowed up it would never have worked. The timing had to be perfect and it almost was. Avi was a little slower than anticipated. I do like the idea and that he tried, not so much that he put his hand down in the slide.

                    I don't buy the blanket rule. In this case the chances of a wild pitch or passed ball were high, and the canonical strategy of moving the runner from second to third at the expense of an out becomes less attractive.
                    It also opens up the possibility of Robert swiping 2nd to put two runners in scoring position, and a bad throw from the catcher let's Madrigal walk home. Lots of good could have come from Madrigal getting to 3rd in that situation.

                    It's a shame Robert had to hit the ball so hard, or Madrigal likely would have made it.

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                    • #11
                      Unfortunately young players are often overly aggressive, whether it's swinging at pitches or trying to take that extra base. Somebody suggested that Madrigal's initial 0-for in the majors was because he was trying too hard. Perhaps this is as well.
                      "Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but those who stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only after they are ruined."
                      -- Thucydides

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FourGoldGloves View Post

                        If he had slowed up it would never have worked. The timing had to be perfect and it almost was. Avi was a little slower than anticipated. I do like the idea and that he tried, not so much that he put his hand down in the slide.

                        I don't buy the blanket rule. In this case the chances of a wild pitch or passed ball were high, and the canonical strategy of moving the runner from second to third at the expense of an out becomes less attractive.
                        It's pretty much one of the first things you learn as a little leaguer is don't make the first or 3rd out at 3rd base. If there was a wild pitch, he'd be on 3rd then with outs to drive him in. But in general, if you are going to 3rd as an additional base with no outs, you make damn sure you'll be safe. He was out by a lot.

                        Players make mistakes for sure, and he'll learn from this.

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                        • #13
                          Pretty much the same situation last night, when Engel hustled first to third on a single to center. The play was right in front of DeShields -- and Engel made it because of a weaker throw. Madrigal, meanwhile has said he made a mistake and has to learn to take less chances and to wait for our sluggers to do their thing. Ah, White Sox baseball. The kid learns fast. Maybe he would have said something else if he saw that the sluggers did not show up for three games in a row. I hope he realizes that his job is to make things happen, not be a place marker.

                          Four Sox Gold Gloves in 1960.
                          One position player Gold Glove in the last 21 years.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FourGoldGloves View Post
                            Pretty much the same situation last night, when Engel hustled first to third on a single to center. The play was right in front of DeShields -- and Engel made it because of a weaker throw. Madrigal, meanwhile has said he made a mistake and has to learn to take less chances and to wait for our sluggers to do their thing. Ah, White Sox baseball. The kid learns fast. Maybe he would have said something else if he saw that the sluggers did not show up for three games in a row. I hope he realizes that his job is to make things happen, not be a place marker.
                            The two differences between Engel’s play and Madrigal’s (other than the injury) were that Avi has a better arm than DeShields, and Robert hit the ball harder so it got to Avi quicker. Agreed that Madrigal will learn from this (most importantly how to slide without sticking his arm down like that).

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                            • #15
                              I know this was a few days ago, but it concerned me when Madrigal got thrown out at the plate that he didn't cut third base properly. And he injured himself when he was thrown out at third. We've heard the hype about how much of a ballplayer he is and that he has great instincts and does everything right on the field. That looks like hogwash. Is that because that's the stereotypical tag a small white player receives? If anything, he hasn't been the brightest.

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