*Official* 8/3 KC Killers Postgamer

[Harwar]

That curve that Dylan Cease was throwing was a beautiful thing . Adam Engel should be starting every game, unless there is some health reason not too. i've been a big fan of his, since way before he started hitting the baseball with authority . Leury Garcia is a fine backup, but should never be starting over Adam Engel . "Payback" is a really fun movie.

[Frater Perdurabo]

You know what would ease some of the sting while we wait to get Eloy and Robert back on board? If we stopped sitting the guy who is actually putting up Eloy and Robert numbers to give everyday run to Leury Garcia…

I mean, come on…

Not only do we continue to get our #JustLeuryThings (horse**** bat, key mistakes in the field) ad nauseum, the guy we’re sitting to make it happen has basically been nothing short of an All Star this year.

This is no longer just about some deep-seated personal preference for Leury during the rebuild. This is about being fundamentally incorrect in evaluating the talent on the roster.

#FreeAdamEngel

Here’s Leury’s 2021 slash line v. RHP:

.227

.318

.320

.638

Objectively, about the only thing he now offers v. RHP is a respectable walk rate. And that would be somewhat useful if he could steal bases like Billy Hamilton.

And now even his 2021 slash line v. LHP is sub-replacement:

.276

.319

.379

.698

The batting average is respectable but the walk rate takes a dip to where his OBP is no better.

Now, to be fair, he does have a stout .885 OPS with RISP in 93 plate appearances. However, in high leverage situations, his OPS is .483 in 70 plate appearances. By contrast, his OPS is .766 in 153 low leverage plate appearances. More specifically, when the game is “late and close,” in 37 plate appearances he has a .390 OPS.

His daytime OPS is .799; in night games his OPS is .571.

So, it’s fair to say that when the Sox lineup is cooking, he does OK, likely because the opposing pitcher is struggling.

With all this in mind, if he has to stay on the roster and you want to get the best out of Leury Garcia, play him only in day games (hello, Sunday lineup!) against LHP!

[Mohoney]

That curve that Dylan Cease was throwing was a beautiful thing . Adam Engel should be starting every game, unless there is some health reason not too. i've been a big fan of his, since way before he started hitting the baseball with authority . Leury Garcia is a fine backup, but should never be starting over Adam Engel . "Payback" is a really fun movie.

I guess it’s considered a knuckle-curve, like Mike Mussina and Gerrit Cole.

Speaking of which, I think interviewers should ask pitchers about their pitch grips while the camera is running. They can flash the grip quickly in front of the camera, talk about it for about 30 seconds, and the fans at home would have a better idea of what actually influences the behaviors of differently-pitched baseballs.

Lynn’s segment obviously would be explaining his 4-seam/2-seam/cutter grips, Giolito’s would focus on the changeup, Cease’s would focus on the knuckle-curve, Keuchel’s would be a class in keeping the ball down to induce ground balls, Rodon’s would focus on the slider.

The best thing about it? This pitching staff is basically a 2021 reboot of The Muppet Show. Even kids and casuals who find the subjects beyond their ability to comprehend would listen to these guys read a phone book and be happy to hear it. Now imagine hearing them get into the nitty-gritty about pitching.

[Mohoney]

Here’s Leury’s 2021 slash line v. RHP:

.227

.318

.320

.638

Objectively, about the only thing he now offers v. RHP is a respectable walk rate. And that would be somewhat useful if he could steal bases like Billy Hamilton.

And now even his 2021 slash line v. LHP is sub-replacement:

.276

.319

.379

.698

The batting average is respectable but the walk rate takes a dip to where his OBP is no better.

Now, to be fair, he does have a stout .885 OPS with RISP in 93 plate appearances. However, in high leverage situations, his OPS is .483 in 70 plate appearances. By contrast, his OPS is .766 in 153 low leverage plate appearances. More specifically, when the game is “late and close,” in 37 plate appearances he has a .390 OPS.

His daytime OPS is .799; in night games his OPS is .571.

So, it’s fair to say that when the Sox lineup is cooking, he does OK, likely because the opposing pitcher is struggling.

With all this in mind, if he has to stay on the roster and you want to get the best out of Leury Garcia, play him only in day games (hello, Sunday lineup!) against LHP!

Adam Engel has a BB% of over 11 percent against RHP this season.

This is a Platoon that needs to go the way of Sergeant Barnes, and soon.

[Hitmen77]

That curve that Dylan Cease was throwing was a beautiful thing . Adam Engel should be starting every game, unless there is some health reason not too. i've been a big fan of his, since way before he started hitting the baseball with authority . Leury Garcia is a fine backup, but should never be starting over Adam Engel . "Payback" is a really fun movie.

Are they still easing back his playing time? I know they were for a while. If that's their approach, I'm fine with that even if it means he has limit playing time the next week or two. I'd rather he be at full strength heading into the post-season.

[ChiTownTrojan]

Are they still easing back his playing time? I know they were for a while. If that's their approach, I'm fine with that even if it means he has limit playing time the next week or two. I'd rather he be at full strength heading into the post-season.

I agree. With a 9.5 game lead I'm fine with Engel resting 3 times per week for the rest of the regular season, if that's what's needed to ensure he's playing every day in October.

[blurry]

Adam Engel has a BB% of over 11 percent against RHP this season.

This is a Platoon that needs to go the way of Sergeant Barnes, and soon.

I'm surprised to see Leury Garcia has a 1.2 bWAR and 1.1 fWAR so far in 2021. FG rates his defense and baserunning above average.

I agree it should be Engel getting more playing time in the OF. I think the issue with Garcia is compounded by the fact he gets so much playing time when there are better options. Obviously though there's been a lot of injuries and time off in the outfield and infield. Moving forward though his playing time should be reduced.

[longtimefan]

Leury Garcia gets some negative discussion on this forum. I like him and feel he is a significant asset to the team. But he strength is being a utility player filling in at multiple positions when needed. He is not a starter but has been forced into that role because of the team's many injuries.

[voodoochile]

Goodwin deserves regular PT against RHP the rest of the way also. His split vs RHP is .937 OPS.

[Mohoney]

I'm surprised to see Leury Garcia has a 1.2 bWAR and 1.1 fWAR so far in 2021. FG rates his defense and baserunning above average.

I agree it should be Engel getting more playing time in the OF. I think the issue with Garcia is compounded by the fact he gets so much playing time when there are better options. Obviously though there's been a lot of injuries and time off in the outfield and infield. Moving forward though his playing time should be reduced.

His “positional penalty” is more closely aligned with being a middle infielder. That offsets a doody-poo bat. Plus, he’s 5th on the team in plate appearances (which is just ****ing disgusting); a nice chunk of it is just fluffy accumulation with no real value,

It’s one of the limitations of WAR, but when you know that going in, you can adjust. Find out how much “positional penalty” is being applied, and if it still seems erroneously high, divide it by number of plate appearances. Find out how many times he needs to flail about aimlessly in the batter’s box to accumulate that WAR.

[Mohoney]

Leury Garcia gets some negative discussion on this forum. I like him and feel he is a significant asset to the team. But he strength is being a utility player filling in at multiple positions when needed. He is not a starter but has been forced into that role because of the team's many injuries.

“When needed” needs to become “never.”

You don’t let a ****ing scrub like that derail your playoff hopes and dreams.

[Mohoney]

Goodwin deserves regular PT against RHP the rest of the way also. His split vs RHP is .937 OPS.

Honestly, after seeing him in Cincinnati and hearing about how awful he looked in Pirates camp, I thought he would be back in mediocrity by now.

He was a decent fill-in LH-hitting OF when he was with the Angels, and he is even better than that here. Maybe it was the league switch?

[Frater Perdurabo]

Adam Engel has a BB% of over 11 percent against RHP this season.

This is a Platoon that needs to go the way of Sergeant Barnes, and soon.

When Robert is back, I imagine TLR will want to ease him into the lineup. And I completely understand that they may also be easing Engel somewhat given his injury earlier this year. Same with Eloy. And yes, I understand they may want Sheets to go to Charlotte to get regular ABs, and may bring Lamb up instead.

Still, all of these players are quantifiably better than Leury. When Robert and Lamb are back, there are only TWO positions - SS and 2B - where Leury is even the preferred backup. Every other position will have at least TWO options - starter and backup - better than Leury:

1B: Abreu, Vaughn
DH: Eloy, Abreu, Vaughn
LF: Vaughn, Eloy
CF: Robert, Engel
RF: Engel, Goodwin, Lamb
3B: Moncada, Lamb

[StanBahnsen72]

Are they still easing back his playing time? I know they were for a while. If that's their approach, I'm fine with that even if it means he has limit playing time the next week or two. I'd rather he be at full strength heading into the post-season.

I think that is exactly what they are doing- the last thing the White Sox need is to lose Engel AGAIN (and risk his availability for the postseason) because they pushed him too hard while waiting for Robert to return. Once Robert is back (should be soon)- Engel playing RF vs. LH pitching (Goodwin rakes vs. RH), spelling Robert in CF and coming in as a late inning replacement should be the approach.

[Mohoney]

When Robert is back, I imagine TLR will want to ease him into the lineup. And I completely understand that they may also be easing Engel somewhat given his injury earlier this year. Same with Eloy. And yes, I understand they may want Sheets to go to Charlotte to get regular ABs, and may bring Lamb up instead.

Still, all of these players are quantifiably better than Leury. When Robert and Lamb are back, there are only TWO positions - SS and 2B - where Leury is even the preferred backup. Every other position will have at least TWO options - starter and backup - better than Leury:

1B: Abreu, Vaughn
DH: Eloy, Abreu, Vaughn
LF: Vaughn, Eloy
CF: Robert, Engel
RF: Engel, Goodwin, Lamb
3B: Moncada, Lamb

Anybody know what happened to Tim Beckham? He’s on the 7-day IL at Charlotte. I would even prefer Beckham on the roster than Leury.

Anybody…anybody…except for Leury. Something bad will happen if he is on the field in October.