Nick Madrigal

[blurry]

Fangraphs says Madrigal is a good hitter but wonders if he can be great: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-mad...n-he-be-great/

Everyone knew he could make contact at an elite rate. To me he can be great for this lineup if he can get on base at a higher clip, even if his power and/or walk rates don't really develop, because he isn't going to be the guy that's expected to drive in runs.

Personally I think he can be a good hitter but a great overall player if his glove eventually lives up to the hype and he can be a force on the basepaths. But outside of developing a knack to rope doubles in the gaps, I don't see the power coming. Not without sacrificing his one great tool.

[voodoochile]

Fangraphs says Madrigal is a good hitter but wonders if he can be great: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-mad...n-he-be-great/

Everyone knew he could make contact at an elite rate. To me he can be great for this lineup if he can get on base at a higher clip, even if his power and/or walk rates don't really develop, because he isn't going to be the guy that's expected to drive in runs.

Personally I think he can be a good hitter but a great overall player if his glove eventually lives up to the hype and he can be a force on the basepaths. But outside of developing a knack to rope doubles in the gaps, I don't see the power coming. Not without sacrificing his one great tool.

He's just starting to look really comfortable and it's showing up in all aspects of his game. His defense looks smoother and in rhythm. His baserunning is improving as he sees and feels the game better and just this weekend he laced a double and a triple into the gaps and over the heads of shallower defenders. The triple was nearly an inside park homer due to his speed.

He may well develop gap power if teams continue to play him shallow and his comfort level at the plate develops and he learns the pitchers. If not it will be because teams start to back up again and then his dink and dunk single approach will drive up his batting average into the league leading category.

[Lipman 1]

The knock on him is he doesn't hit home runs. Big deal...The Sox have plenty of other guys in the lineup who can do that.

In my book if the kid can hit for a high average, get on base, field well and run well that's more than enough to compensate because he doesn't hit 20 home runs.

[Chez]

The knock on him is he doesn't hit home runs. Big deal...The Sox have plenty of other guys in the lineup who can do that.

In my book if the kid can hit for a high average, get on base, field well and run well that's more than enough to compensate because he doesn't hit 20 home runs.

Completely agree. He's a throw-back and fun as hell to watch - especially with two strikes.

[Dumpjerry]

Fangraphs says Madrigal is a good hitter but wonders if he can be great: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/nick-mad...n-he-be-great/

Everyone knew he could make contact at an elite rate. To me he can be great for this lineup if he can get on base at a higher clip, even if his power and/or walk rates don't really develop, because he isn't going to be the guy that's expected to drive in runs.

Personally I think he can be a good hitter but a great overall player if his glove eventually lives up to the hype and he can be a force on the basepaths. But outside of developing a knack to rope doubles in the gaps, I don't see the power coming. Not without sacrificing his one great tool.

I wonder what Fangraphs would have said about Nellie Fox.

Some people work with information overload.

[ChiTownTrojan]

The knock on him is he doesn't hit home runs. Big deal...The Sox have plenty of other guys in the lineup who can do that.

In my book if the kid can hit for a high average, get on base, field well and run well that's more than enough to compensate because he doesn't hit 20 home runs.

I agree that's "more than enough", but the question is whether that profile makes him an elite 2B, or just a good one.

I read the FG article earlier today, and what struck me is that it is completely based on OPS as the end all and be all of baseball statistics for measuring offensive contribution. I agree that OPS is a great stat, and is useful for evaluating most players offensively - in fact, I've compared it to a bunch of other common offensive stats and found it to be more correlated with runs scored and winning percentage than any other single offensive statistic. But like any statistic it doesn't capture everything, and Madrigal is such a unique offensive player that the exact areas where it fails are likely to be the areas where he excels.

[notjimrose]

The knock on him is he doesn't hit home runs. Big deal...The Sox have plenty of other guys in the lineup who can do that.

In my book if the kid can hit for a high average, get on base, field well and run well that's more than enough to compensate because he doesn't hit 20 home runs.

The knock on him isn't that he doesn't hit home runs, it's that, last year, he showed little to no ability to drive the ball. Those little dink hits that drove up his average and OBP last year would disappear if outfielders learned they could play in on him. Which, Texas did this weekend and he finally drove some balls over people's heads and came up with big hits on Saturday and Sunday. If he can take advantage of the alleys and put the ball over someone's head if they cheat in, he'll continue to get those cheap hits too and will be a pest (the good kind) to be reckoned with.

[Lipman 1]

I agree that's "more than enough", but the question is whether that profile makes him an elite 2B, or just a good one.

I read the FG article earlier today, and what struck me is that it is completely based on OPS as the end all and be all of baseball statistics for measuring offensive contribution. I agree that OPS is a great stat, and is useful for evaluating most players offensively - in fact, I've compared it to a bunch of other common offensive stats and found it to be more correlated with runs scored and winning percentage than any other single offensive statistic. But like any statistic it doesn't capture everything, and Madrigal is such a unique offensive player that the exact areas where it fails are likely to be the areas where he excels.

Just my opinion but a "Good" second baseman is perfectly fine with me. Unless you are willing to spend and spend and spend you aren't going to have an All-Star at every spot on the field.

[ChiTownTrojan]

Just my opinion but a "Good" second baseman is perfectly fine with me. Unless you are willing to spend and spend and spend you aren't going to have an All-Star at every spot on the field.

I agree that Madrigal can be "good" and the Sox can still win, but isn't "great" still better than "good"? The more great players you have, the more margin for error there is in terms of poor performance/injuries elsewhere. Madrigal is cost-controlled for awhile so he can become great and still not affect the Sox payroll one iota for a few more years. Even if he ends up developing 5-10 HR power (likely his ceiling) it's not going to make him unaffordable during his arbitration years.

[Frater Perdurabo]

Madrigal is perfect as the #9 hitter on this team. He advances/scores runners, gets on base, turns over the lineup, and gets driven in frequently by Anderson, Eaton, and Moncada.

[blurry]

The knock on him isn't that he doesn't hit home runs, it's that, last year, he showed little to no ability to drive the ball. Those little dink hits that drove up his average and OBP last year would disappear if outfielders learned they could play in on him. Which, Texas did this weekend and he finally drove some balls over people's heads and came up with big hits on Saturday and Sunday. If he can take advantage of the alleys and put the ball over someone's head if they cheat in, he'll continue to get those cheap hits too and will be a pest (the good kind) to be reckoned with.

The nice thing his he has the contact ability and (just enough) power to do exactly this consistently. He probably won't ever show the crazy gap power that someone like TA has and that's okay.

[GoSoxMMV]

The knock on him isn't that he doesn't hit home runs, it's that, last year, he showed little to no ability to drive the ball. Those little dink hits that drove up his average and OBP last year would disappear if outfielders learned they could play in on him. Which, Texas did this weekend and he finally drove some balls over people's heads and came up with big hits on Saturday and Sunday. If he can take advantage of the alleys and put the ball over someone's head if they cheat in, he'll continue to get those cheap hits too and will be a pest (the good kind) to be reckoned with.

In his first 29 career major league games - 21 of which came after he returned from a dislocated shoulder which subsequently required offseason surgery.

Well, at least fans gave him plenty of time last year before writing him off.

[SaltyPretzel]

I couldn't care less how many home runs he hits. We had a left fielder who didn't hit a single home run during the regular season and things turned out pretty well that year.

[voodoochile]

The knock on him isn't that he doesn't hit home runs, it's that, last year, he showed little to no ability to drive the ball. Those little dink hits that drove up his average and OBP last year would disappear if outfielders learned they could play in on him. Which, Texas did this weekend and he finally drove some balls over people's heads and came up with big hits on Saturday and Sunday. If he can take advantage of the alleys and put the ball over someone's head if they cheat in, he'll continue to get those cheap hits too and will be a pest (the good kind) to be reckoned with.

Part of him driving the ball is getting comfortable at the plate and the game slowing down. It is starting to do that for him. You can see it in many aspect of is gameplay.

[LITTLE NELL]

I couldn't care less how many home runs he hits. We had a left fielder who didn't hit a single home run during the regular season and things turned out pretty well that year.

Yes, Scott Podsednik but hit a huge one in the WS.