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  • Ideas to improve the Sox II

    Originally posted by vegandork View Post

    You can probably already guess this, but I put very little stock in the public comments of Sox brass when it comes to evaluations of their own prospects.
    Yea, but its not just sox brass calling for it. For every James Fegan calling for him to come out of the bullpen, there are guys like James Fox calling for the opposite. While I agree with Fegan often, his words shouldn't be treated as gospel. There are a lot of guys plugged into what's going on as well. With our bullpen such a strength now and likely in the future with cost controlled guys, its important to see if he can develop into that SP role while we have such a strength. The greater need will always be SP depth and we could definitely use him for that role if Cease doesn't take next steps. A bullpen role isn't going to magically disappear if he doesn't work out as a starter. I would expect that he contributes both ways, pushing into the pen for a pennant run this year.

  • #2
    Carry on.

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    • #3
      I finally got to listen to the latest FutureSox podcast recently, that starts with a discussion of the plan for Crochet in 2021:

      https://www.futuresox.com/2020/12/18...ochet-in-2021/

      Fox thinks that the Sox will use Crochet out of the bullpen in 2021, and he thinks that would be a mistake - that he should be starting in the minors. Earlier this offseason I've argued for the "Chris Sale" treatment with Crochet - have him start off in the pen, and then transition him to starting in a year or two. Well I guess I haven't really argued for that plan, but I can understand the logic in it, since we are in a prime contention window and Crochet is undoubtedly one of the best RP options in the system. However, James Fox (and others) made a really good point on the difference between Sale and Crochet that I really didn't think about - Sale had 2 years of starting in college leading up to getting drafted, but Crochet didn't. He was being used in relief in 2018-19, and was all set to become the ace starter this year before the season was cancelled after one start. So if he were to spend the next couple years coming out of the Sox bullpen, it would be pretty hard to transition him to being a starter when he really hasn't been a starter for a long time (since high school).

      They floated a plan that I think would be a pretty good balance - have him start the season in the minors as a starter (A+?), give him most of the season there, and then around August you can call him up to the majors for the stretch run/playoffs. Bonus is that you also keep his service time down this way. This seems like a good plan for 2021-2, and then maybe by 2023 he'll be ready to earn a rotation spot.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ChiTownTrojan View Post
        I finally got to listen to the latest FutureSox podcast recently, that starts with a discussion of the plan for Crochet in 2021:

        https://www.futuresox.com/2020/12/18...ochet-in-2021/

        Fox thinks that the Sox will use Crochet out of the bullpen in 2021, and he thinks that would be a mistake - that he should be starting in the minors. Earlier this offseason I've argued for the "Chris Sale" treatment with Crochet - have him start off in the pen, and then transition him to starting in a year or two. Well I guess I haven't really argued for that plan, but I can understand the logic in it, since we are in a prime contention window and Crochet is undoubtedly one of the best RP options in the system. However, James Fox (and others) made a really good point on the difference between Sale and Crochet that I really didn't think about - Sale had 2 years of starting in college leading up to getting drafted, but Crochet didn't. He was being used in relief in 2018-19, and was all set to become the ace starter this year before the season was cancelled after one start. So if he were to spend the next couple years coming out of the Sox bullpen, it would be pretty hard to transition him to being a starter when he really hasn't been a starter for a long time (since high school).

        They floated a plan that I think would be a pretty good balance - have him start the season in the minors as a starter (A+?), give him most of the season there, and then around August you can call him up to the majors for the stretch run/playoffs. Bonus is that you also keep his service time down this way. This seems like a good plan for 2021-2, and then maybe by 2023 he'll be ready to earn a rotation spot.
        Bummer and Fry will return, but rolling with only 2 LHP in the bullpen is not something I see La Russa doing.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mohoney View Post

          Bummer and Fry will return, but rolling with only 2 LHP in the bullpen is not something I see La Russa doing.
          I would imagine that most of the bullpens on TLR-managed teams only had 2 LHP. Bullpens used to be smaller than they are now, wasn't two lefties the norm not that long ago? Especially in the NL they typically had more bench bats for double-switches and pinch hitting (referring to his days with the Cardinals of course). Also with the 3-batter minimum it lessens the need to have a lefty specialist.

          But yeah, a third lefty would be ideal. That could be an outside addition, perhaps a left long reliever, or maybe a depth piece at Charlotte to protect against injury to Bummer/Fry. Even without that though I think La Russa could get by through July with only 2 LH relievers.

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          • #6
            Now that all the fireworks have settled down from yesterday, does anyone think we should try to pry Hendricks away from the Cubs? They got 4 lottery tickets yesterday. I would try with maybe Stiever, Thompson, & Pilkington since they are in apparent firesale mode.
            Last edited by spanishsox; 12-29-2020, 05:56 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by spanishsox View Post
              Now that all the fireworks have settled down from yesterday, does anyone think we should try to pry Hendricks away from the Cubs? They got 4 lottery tickets yesterday. I would try with maybe Stiever, Thompson, & Pilkington since they are in apparent firesale mode.
              They got some pretty highly rated lottery tickets, not bottom top 30 guys. Hendricks would cost a lot more than Darvish as he is a lot cheaper, an extra year of control, more consistent results, and no injury history.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post

                They got some pretty highly rated lottery tickets, not bottom top 30 guys. Hendricks would cost a lot more than Darvish as he is a lot cheaper, an extra year of control, more consistent results, and no injury history.
                I hear you but there is literally no reason for the Flubs to keep him now. Ricketts has been crying poor for quite a while now and I think mandated massive salary cuts, hence Theo left. I would even consider offering Kopech as the centerpiece. Our rotation would be in the top 3 league wide, possibly all MLB.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by spanishsox View Post

                  I hear you but there is literally no reason for the Flubs to keep him now. Ricketts has been crying poor for quite a while now and I think mandated massive salary cuts, hence Theo left. I would even consider offering Kopech as the centerpiece. Our rotation would be in the top 3 league wide, possibly all MLB.
                  That would be a good deal for us.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by vegandork View Post

                    That would be a good deal for us.
                    I agree, RH should at least kick the tires on a deal.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by spanishsox View Post

                      I hear you but there is literally no reason for the Flubs to keep him now. Ricketts has been crying poor for quite a while now and I think mandated massive salary cuts, hence Theo left. I would even consider offering Kopech as the centerpiece. Our rotation would be in the top 3 league wide, possibly all MLB.
                      Hendricks' salary is ~$14 mil/yr, cheap by mlb standards, plus he's not a FA until 2024.His salary is low compared to other cub players. It'll take a lot more than Kopech and a few toss in players.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paulwny View Post

                        Hendricks' salary is ~$14 mil/yr, cheap by mlb standards, plus he's not a FA until 2024.His salary is low compared to other cub players. It'll take a lot more than Kopech and a few toss in players.
                        Would you up the deal & offer Kopech, Kelly, & Thompson?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by spanishsox View Post

                          Would you up the deal & offer Kopech, Kelly, & Thompson?

                          I'd do it but, would the cubs?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by spanishsox View Post

                            Would you up the deal & offer Kopech, Kelly, & Thompson?
                            Goodness no. That's 2 of the Sox top 5 prospects.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by spanishsox View Post

                              Would you up the deal & offer Kopech, Kelly, & Thompson?
                              I wouldn’t. I think Kopech is going to be special.
                              (Formerly asindc.)

                              "I have the ultimate respect for White Sox fans. They were as miserable as the Cubs and Red Sox fans ever were but always had the good decency to keep it to themselves. And when they finally won the World Series, they celebrated without annoying every other fan in the country." Jim Caple, ESPN (January 12, 2011)

                              "We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the (bleeding) obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." — George Orwell

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