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  • #61
    Have times changes? Where is the outrage, the condemnation of the Tigers organization for hiring A.J. Hinch after his slap on the wrist for a crimes against the integrity of the game? The fact that Hinch and Alex Cora are eligible to find jobs in baseball is at least as worthy of your outrage. The La Russa judgement is more of an excuse, a reason to find fault, something to amplify for people against La Russa in the first place.

    I certainly don't condone drunk driving. I used to put names of drunk drivers in he newspaper despite the the threats made against me and the bribes I was offered. I could be a lot more smug about it because I don't drink But it isn't as if La Russa advocates drunk driving. And it isn't as if the White Sox won't sell alcohol to people who drive to the games. There may even be beer in the clubhouse after the game.

    It wouldn't be hard to point out hypocritic double standards, and that could easily become political, and I see that politics has crept into this thread.. Keeping it to baseball, I don't know how anyone could argue that La Russa is bringing shame on the White Sox organization without condemning Detroit for hiring Hinch.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by TDog View Post
      Have times changes? Where is the outrage, the condemnation of the Tigers organization for hiring A.J. Hinch after his slap on the wrist for a crimes against the integrity of the game? The fact that Hinch and Alex Cora are eligible to find jobs in baseball is at least as worthy of your outrage. The La Russa judgement is more of an excuse, a reason to find fault, something to amplify for people against La Russa in the first place.

      I certainly don't condone drunk driving. I used to put names of drunk drivers in he newspaper despite the the threats made against me and the bribes I was offered. I could be a lot more smug about it because I don't drink But it isn't as if La Russa advocates drunk driving. And it isn't as if the White Sox won't sell alcohol to people who drive to the games. There may even be beer in the clubhouse after the game.

      It wouldn't be hard to point out hypocritic double standards, and that could easily become political, and I see that politics has crept into this thread.. Keeping it to baseball, I don't know how anyone could argue that La Russa is bringing shame on the White Sox organization without condemning Detroit for hiring Hinch.
      You are seriously comparing cheating in a kids game to recklessly and selfishly putting people's lives at risk. It's not political, it's common ****ing sense and ridiculously offensive of you to make such a comparison. People ****ing die from this ****.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by vegandork View Post

        You are seriously comparing cheating in a kids game to recklessly and selfishly putting people's lives at risk. It's not political, it's common ****ing sense and ridiculously offensive of you to make such a comparison. People ****ing die from this ****.
        No, I'm not. The applicable logical term here is false equivalence.

        When I was working as a newspaper reporter, I would not have been fired for a drunk-driving conviction. (Irrelevant in my case because I don't drink.) I would have been fired, and probably never able to get another job as a newspaper reporter if I had been caught taking a bribe to keep someone's drunk-driving conviction out of the newspaper. Drunk-driving is the greater crime against society. Taking the bribe would be the greater crime against my profession.

        Systematic cheating to manipulate the outcome of games (for which Hinch and Cora were suspended) is a bigger crime against the game of baseball and will cast a shadow of doubt on any game they manage in the future. The integrity of a game does not hinge on the driving records of managers or players, no matter how reckless. One can only speculate as to whether a drunk-driving conviction for a star White Sox player would be regarded in the same way, and I hope we never have to go through the values clarification angst with that one.

        Maybe the White Sox should suspend all beer sales to show they are in solidarity with the anti-La Russa crusaders. Or maybe they should test everyone's blood-alcohol content on the way out of the ballpark.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by TDog View Post
          Maybe the White Sox should suspend all beer sales to show they are in solidarity with the anti-La Russa crusaders. Or maybe they should test everyone's blood-alcohol content on the way out of the ballpark.
          This is actually a more intellectually defensible and consistent position.

          I think there are both baseball, and societal/ethical, reasons NOT to have hired LaRussa. But the ongoing outrage doesn’t really seem to be going anywhere. If the outrage is that real and that intense, maybe baseball - a game with a history and a culture as sordid as it is celebrated - isn’t something purists should enjoy.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by TDog View Post

            No, I'm not. The applicable logical term here is false equivalence.

            When I was working as a newspaper reporter, I would not have been fired for a drunk-driving conviction. (Irrelevant in my case because I don't drink.) I would have been fired, and probably never able to get another job as a newspaper reporter if I had been caught taking a bribe to keep someone's drunk-driving conviction out of the newspaper. Drunk-driving is the greater crime against society. Taking the bribe would be the greater crime against my profession.

            Systematic cheating to manipulate the outcome of games (for which Hinch and Cora were suspended) is a bigger crime against the game of baseball and will cast a shadow of doubt on any game they manage in the future. The integrity of a game does not hinge on the driving records of managers or players, no matter how reckless. One can only speculate as to whether a drunk-driving conviction for a star White Sox player would be regarded in the same way, and I hope we never have to go through the values clarification angst with that one.

            Maybe the White Sox should suspend all beer sales to show they are in solidarity with the anti-La Russa crusaders. Or maybe they should test everyone's blood-alcohol content on the way out of the ballpark.
            This answer is insane mental gymnastics. In no world is cheating at a game the equivalent of breaking a law meant to protect people's lives. Jesus...absolutely insanity. It would be funny if it also didn't also offend anyone who's lost people to drunk driving.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by vegandork View Post

              This answer is insane mental gymnastics. In no world is cheating at a game the equivalent of breaking a law meant to protect people's lives. Jesus...absolutely insanity. It would be funny if it also didn't also offend anyone who's lost people to drunk driving.
              I also think driving while drunk is ethically indefensible.

              At the same time, I’m sure there have been a couple of times when I have driven when I’ve either been over the legal limit, OR I’ve been so tired that the effect was the same. Perhaps you think that should make me ineligible to hold my job.

              It seems, though, that what’s so offensive about this particular situation is that your favorite MLB team has hired someone who twice has been arrested for driving drunk. In other words, you wouldn’t be this outraged if, say, the Sacramento Kings or the Tennessee Titans hired a head coach who had two DWIs.

              That being the case, it would be understandable if you (or anyone else) decided this was the last straw, and stopped being a Sox fan. It seems that Jerry Reinsdorf has already told you what he thinks about the possibility of you - or anyone else - doing so.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post

                I also think driving while drunk is ethically indefensible.

                At the same time, I’m sure there have been a couple of times when I have driven when I’ve either been over the legal limit, OR I’ve been so tired that the effect was the same. Perhaps you think that should make me ineligible to hold my job.

                It seems, though, that what’s so offensive about this particular situation is that your favorite MLB team has hired someone who twice has been arrested for driving drunk. In other words, you wouldn’t be this outraged if, say, the Sacramento Kings or the Tennessee Titans hired a head coach who had two DWIs.

                That being the case, it would be understandable if you (or anyone else) decided this was the last straw, and stopped being a Sox fan. It seems that Jerry Reinsdorf has already told you what he thinks about the possibility of you - or anyone else - doing so.
                Are you leading an organization publicly? If so, you SHOULD lose your job.

                This isn't "just" driving over the legal limit. This is driving over the legal limit, after already getting caught doing it. And then being so drunk and pompous that you refuse a breathalyzer and demand respect for your right as a privileged ass to do what you want and terrorize communities. Did you refuse to take a breathalyzer, a felony, and then get your lawyers to pressure the DA to plea for a back room deal over losing campaign contributions? Because what you describe is not nearly as egregious as what La Russa did on all fronts.

                I would be upset if another team did this. And I would judge their organization and the fans that stand for it. Just as I would judge any White Sox fan that is fine with this and not completely outraged. As a coach I'm not someone upset with the La Russa hire. I was kinda "eh" about it until this came out.

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                • #68
                  Yeah okay that's enough for this thread again, which AGAIN has the same people saying the SAME thing AGAIN. Let's try not to ruin the next thread about LaRussa also.
                  Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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