Looking backwards not forwards

[Mohoney]

Yeah sorry, I don't subscribe to this at all. Windows open now. Two years from now you could suffer from massive injuries or regression in the core. Nothing is a given except right now. When the windows open, you do nothing that doesn't help you win right now or else you're likely to have your opportunity pass you by.

Yup. The table is set. We already wasted 2020 by knowingly and willingly going into the season with an inadequate pitching staff and a dunce in the dugout. This idea of a guaranteed decade of competitive baseball is not something that should be just assumed.

[Kobo]

Yup. The table is set. We already wasted 2020 by knowingly and willingly going into the season with an inadequate pitching staff and a dunce in the dugout. This idea of a guaranteed decade of competitive baseball is not something that should be just assumed.

Wait a second. There were a few people on the old boards who thought the Sox MIGHT have been able to compete for a Wild Card this season if this season had been a normal season. And now you are changing the narrative that this was a contention season all along and the Sox should have known better at the end of 2019? I'm not buying it.

[Mohoney]

Wait a second. There were a few people on the old boards who thought the Sox MIGHT have been able to compete for a Wild Card this season if this season had been a normal season. And now you are changing the narrative that this was a contention season all along and the Sox should have known better at the end of 2019? I'm not buying it.

Why did they sign guys like Encarnacion and Cishek to 1-year deals if they didn’t think the team had a chance to compete? Then factor in the unbearable homer hype from the team’s media outlets all winter...

Renteria proved himself useless back in 2018 and doubled down on his uselessness in 2019. He never should have managed this team in 2020 in the first place.

[A. Cavatica]

Wait a second. There were a few people on the old boards who thought the Sox MIGHT have been able to compete for a Wild Card this season if this season had been a normal season. And now you are changing the narrative that this was a contention season all along and the Sox should have known better at the end of 2019? I'm not buying it.

He’s saying that if the Sox had signed Wheeler instead of Keuchel and replaced Ricky last offseason, they would have been expected to contend. I can’t argue with that; I’d have picked them for 88-89 wins. Moncada would have been healthy and Kopech would have played. But we don’t know who would have replaced Ricky, and Encarnacion, Mazara, Gonzalez, Cishek, Cease, Lopez and Rodon would have still underperformed in this scenario. It’s no slam dunk that they’d have earned a WC.

[ChiTownTrojan]

Wait a second. There were a few people on the old boards who thought the Sox MIGHT have been able to compete for a Wild Card this season if this season had been a normal season. And now you are changing the narrative that this was a contention season all along and the Sox should have known better at the end of 2019? I'm not buying it.

IIRC, Mahoney was saying last offseason that the Sox needed 2 more starters. In the end he was right - if the Sox had two more dependable starters they might still be playing. That said, I would argue that one of those spots was expected to be for Kopech, and as for the other, it was reasonable to think that one of Cease, Rodon, Lopez, or Gonzalez would have been good enough to hold down a rotation spot throughout the season. Even though they didn't, we definitely learned more about where each of those pitchers is by having them compete for rotation spots - at least as much as we could learn in the condensed season.

[GoSoxMMV]

Wait a second. There were a few people on the old boards who thought the Sox MIGHT have been able to compete for a Wild Card this season if this season had been a normal season. And now you are changing the narrative that this was a contention season all along and the Sox should have known better at the end of 2019? I'm not buying it.

Does it really surprise you that anything short of an AL pennant in 2020 would be seen as vindication by some on WSI of their narrative from last winter that the Sox are too cheap and that their offseason was a failure?

Just like on the old boards last year, it looks like the off season discussion this year will once again be dominated by 1 or 2 people constantly taking a steaming dump on all Sox moves past, present, and future with the same talking points over and over again all winter long. Long live JR's "low-ball" offer to Zack Wheeler!!!!

[Mohoney]

Does it really surprise you that anything short of an AL pennant in 2020 would be seen as vindication by some on WSI of their narrative from last winter that the Sox are too cheap and that their offseason was a failure?

Just like on the old boards last year, it looks like the off season discussion this year will once again be dominated by 1 or 2 people constantly taking a steaming dump on all Sox moves past, present, and future with the same talking points over and over again all winter long. Long live JR's "low-ball" offer to Zack Wheeler!!!!

Meanwhile, Zack Wheeler is a Phillie, Manny Machado is a Padre, we got bounced in the 1st round by an A's team that promptly got bounced in the 2nd round, and we are back-to-back "Fiscal Responsibility Champions."

Better get that parade route secured.

[Kobo]

Meanwhile, Zack Wheeler is a Phillie, Manny Machado is a Padre, we got bounced in the 1st round by an A's team that promptly got bounced in the 2nd round, and we are back-to-back "Fiscal Responsibility Champions."

Better get that parade route secured.

Don't care about Wheeler.
Don't care about Machado.
Pissed the Sox lost the series but feel they would have lost to the Rays.
Tired of the pot shots about fiscal responsibility. Things are looking good right now for this team, better than they have in over 10 ****ing years, but it's still not enough. Never mind the moves that have been made, it always comes down to what didn't happen. It's tiring.

[Mohoney]

Don't care about Wheeler.
Don't care about Machado.
Pissed the Sox lost the series but feel they would have lost to the Rays.
Tired of the pot shots about fiscal responsibility. Things are looking good right now for this team, better than they have in over 10 ****ing years, but it's still not enough. Never mind the moves that have been made, it always comes down to what didn't happen. It's tiring.

It’s also tiring to see this team not spend enough to win, then have to hear the Pollyanna contingent defend poor Uncle Jerry.

[Kobo]

It’s also tiring to see this team not spend enough to win, then have to hear the Pollyanna contingent defend poor Uncle Jerry.

Who is defending "Uncle Jerry"? The majority agreed they lowballed Machado. Wheeler was a different situation and you have made it perfectly clear that you simply don't agree with people who conclude Wheeler made a personal choice rather than chasing money.

[vegandork]

Who is defending "Uncle Jerry"? The majority agreed they lowballed Machado. Wheeler was a different situation and you have made it perfectly clear that you simply don't agree with people who conclude Wheeler made a personal choice rather than chasing money.

The majority most certainly did not. And feeling like the paltry difference in deals Wheeler chose from meant we spent above and beyond to get him is an extension of the type of thinking that we didn't lowball Machado. There's a price for guys, and then there's a price to get specific guys here. The White Sox could have prevented Wheeler from going to the Phillies. But they didn't want to spend what it would take. Was it the right call? We don't know yet.

[voodoochile]

The majority most certainly did not. And feeling like the paltry difference in deals Wheeler chose from meant we spent above and beyond to get him is an extension of the type of thinking that we didn't lowball Machado. There's a price for guys, and then there's a price to get specific guys here. The White Sox could have prevented Wheeler from going to the Phillies. But they didn't want to spend what it would take. Was it the right call? We don't know yet.

You have zero evidence that's true barring an obscene overpay. I mean sure if they'd offered him $30M more than the Phillies they might have landed him, but it might have needed to be $50M more for all we know and there might have been no amount of money that would have changed the outcome. Some people are fine with enough money for several lifetimes and being close to people they love rather than focusing on obscene wealth.

For all any of us know the Sox might have asked Wheeler if more money would change his mind and he said no.

[Mohoney]

You have zero evidence that's true barring an obscene overpay. I mean sure if they'd offered him $30M more than the Phillies they might have landed him, but it might have needed to be $50M more for all we know and there might have been no amount of money that would have changed the outcome. Some people are fine with enough money for several lifetimes and being close to people they love rather than focusing on obscene wealth.

For all any of us know the Sox might have asked Wheeler if more money would change his mind and he said no.

Okay, but we never seem to land any players who do focus on “obscene” wealth.

I mean, Wheeler was the bronze medal signing last winter anyway. We don’t even get to dream of signing a Cole or even a Strasburg.

[vegandork]

You have zero evidence that's true barring an obscene overpay. I mean sure if they'd offered him $30M more than the Phillies they might have landed him, but it might have needed to be $50M more for all we know and there might have been no amount of money that would have changed the outcome. Some people are fine with enough money for several lifetimes and being close to people they love rather than focusing on obscene wealth.

For all any of us know the Sox might have asked Wheeler if more money would change his mind and he said no.

I was pretty adamant that yes, they'd have to do as you say in order to sign him. Another year minimum. You can't offer a neutral or close to neutral deal when other factors are pulling the player you want to another team. If you bid that way, you lose out 100 times out of 100.

[voodoochile]

I was pretty adamant that yes, they'd have to do as you say in order to sign him. Another year minimum. You can't offer a neutral or close to neutral deal when other factors are pulling the player you want to another team. If you bid that way, you lose out 100 times out of 100.

But again, none of us know what else was discussed and whether substantial more money was potentially offered. The Sox may have also been leery of hamstringing future signings by going significantly higher than market for Wheeler.