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  • Uribe was robbed

    With the completion of the '05 rewind, I have to say Juan Uribe was absolutely robbed of the gold glove. That was just a year long display of incredible defensive prowess, making it look easy with those lightning fast transfers and cannon arm. Jeter could only dream of playing that kind of shortstop. Doubling up with Iguchi was the heart of the team's success; Uribe's importance to that team can't be overstated.

    Seeing that kind of defensive work again put me on board with those calling for TA to be moved to the outfield. He's an absolute amateur at short compared to Uribe, we need something better. No way he ever gets to a level needed to have a shut down defense we are going to need to win a world series. Clubbing your way to a championship seldom works.

    Anyway, hats off to Juan ****ing Uribe

  • #2
    I completely agree about Uribe. I disagree about TA. If TA can get his errors around 20 a season he'll be every bit as good as Uribe or better. His range is as good or better than any other SS in baseball already.

    Uribe had 16 errors in 2005. If TA gets it down to 20 he'll be just as good/
    Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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    • #3
      TA's not as good defensively, at least by the numbers. In 2005, Uribe posted an Rdrs/yr of 25 (runs saved or lost by defense using fielding and zone coverage over the course of 135 games). In 2018 TA had only 20 errors but posted a Rdrs/yr of 5. So when he cuts his errors down to 20, he becomes average to slightly above average (FYI he was -14 last year). Realistically you can't expect TA to suddenly become more athletic and get to more balls/throw faster to first, so getting down errors is the only way to improve these numbers. To be on Uribe's level, he'd need to cut it down a lot more.

      If he wins another batting title, I think you can live with 2018 defensive TA. 2019...is problematic.
      Last edited by vegandork; 06-05-2020, 12:34 PM. Reason: grammar

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      • #4
        Originally posted by vegandork View Post
        TA's not as good defensively, at least by the numbers. In 2005, Uribe posted an Rdrs/yr of 25 (runs saved or lost by defense using fielding and zone coverage over the course of 135 games). In 2018 TA had only 20 errors but posted a Rdrs/yr of 5. So when he cuts his errors down to 20, he becomes average to slightly above average (FYI he was -14 last year). Realistically you can't expect TA to suddenly become more athletic and get to more balls/throw faster to first, so getting down errors is the only way to improve these numbers. To be on Uribe's level, he'd need to cut it down a lot more.

        If he wins another batting title, I think you can live with 2018 defensive TA. 2019...is problematic.
        Those are TA’s strengths, and few do those better. He doesn’t have great instincts or hands out there. Some say those things come with time, some say you either have them or you don’t. He’s become acceptable at SS after starting poorly, and that’s the right trend. His range kept him there, now it’s time for savvy to kick in.

        Juan has those instincts that increase reaction time and range, giving a not so athletic guy the ability to get to those difficult balls and make difficult outs. Of course his hands and arm were elite.
        Last edited by Krs1; 06-05-2020, 02:43 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Krs1 View Post

          Those are TA’s strengths, and few do those better. He doesn’t have great instincts or hands out there. Some say those things come with time, some say you either have them or you don’t. He’s become acceptable at SS after starting poorly, and that’s the right trend. His range kept him there, now it’s time for savvy to kick in.

          Juan has those instincts that increase reaction time and range, giving a not so athletic guy the ability to get to those difficult balls and make difficult outs. Of course his hands and arm were elite.
          That's the big one. He threw out so many guys he had no business throwing out. Absolute cannon.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by vegandork View Post

            That's the big one. He threw out so many guys he had no business throwing out. Absolute cannon.
            I would love to be wrong, but I can't imagine Anderson taking over a big game defensively the way Uribe took over the last two innings of the 2005 World Series.

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            • #7
              TA has the range and the arm strength to be an amazing defensive SS. He doesn't have the raw instincts or decision making ability that Uribe did.

              But if you check the stats, Anderson has led the Majors in Out of Zone plays the last three years with 379 total OOZ plays. The next closest is Jean Segura at 316

              He needs a lot of polish, but the raw ability, speed, athleticism and arm strength are all there.

              https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...2-31&sort=17,d
              Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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              • #8
                Originally posted by voodoochile View Post
                TA has the range and the arm strength to be an amazing defensive SS. He doesn't have the raw instincts or decision making ability that Uribe did.

                But if you check the stats, Anderson has led the Majors in Out of Zone plays the last three years with 379 total OOZ plays. The next closest is Jean Segura at 316

                He needs a lot of polish, but the raw ability, speed, athleticism and arm strength are all there.

                https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...2-31&sort=17,d
                Segura was also a bad shortstop last year and had a negative Rdrs/yr for four years straight. This isn't to say that Anderson can't improve dramatically, only that the over-inflation of "range" when evaluating infielders leads to a lot of guys being unfairly heralded. This will be Segura's ninth year in the league, as he enters his thirties. He never figured it out.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by vegandork View Post

                  Segura was also a bad shortstop last year and had a negative Rdrs/yr for four years straight. This isn't to say that Anderson can't improve dramatically, only that the over-inflation of "range" when evaluating infielders leads to a lot of guys being unfairly heralded. This will be Segura's ninth year in the league, as he enters his thirties. He never figured it out.
                  I'm not saying TA is there, just that he has the ability to get there. The question of whether he will ever harness his talent and become the defensive player he has the raw skills to be is still up for debate. However any player who beat the second highest defensive guy in the list for OOZ plays by 20% needs to be given a good long look.
                  Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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                  • #10
                    If you look at the good and ignore the can't catch problem you could get fooled. Deja vu on this discussion.
                    Perfect is the enemy of good.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vulture View Post
                      With the completion of the '05 rewind, I have to say Juan Uribe was absolutely robbed of the gold glove. That was just a year long display of incredible defensive prowess, making it look easy with those lightning fast transfers and cannon arm. Jeter could only dream of playing that kind of shortstop. Doubling up with Iguchi was the heart of the team's success; Uribe's importance to that team can't be overstated.

                      Seeing that kind of defensive work again put me on board with those calling for TA to be moved to the outfield. He's an absolute amateur at short compared to Uribe, we need something better. No way he ever gets to a level needed to have a shut down defense we are going to need to win a world series. Clubbing your way to a championship seldom works.

                      Anyway, hats off to Juan ****ing Uribe
                      I agree Juan Uribe played great SS for us. When the season started I thought it was a mistake to make him an every day SS, I thought his body Type was more suited for 2B or 3B as he resembled Cleveland’s Ronnie Belliard. I didn’t think he could cover all the ground to be an everyday SS. But Juan made me eat my words, as he made plays I didn’t think were possible for him to make.

                      I remember a few years after Juan went to the SF Giants and Bruce Bochy asked Ozzie Guillen....”what am I getting here as far as defense?” And Ozzie said if you play him at SS he’ll be the best SS on your team, also if you play him at 2B or 3B he’ll be the best player at that position too.

                      Yes, definitely 🍻 cheers to Juan Uribe who played a whale of game at SS for the Sox!

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                      • #12
                        What a great trade that turned out to be. KW shipped Aaron Miles (a good prospect) to Colorado for Uribe. Juan played mostly 2B his first year on the Southside (2004) and hit 23 HR's. The Sox parted ways with Valentin and made Uribe the starting SS before the 2005 season. Uribe was one of the most unconventional players I've ever seen play for the Sox. His swing, the way he fielded balls hit right at him -- nothing was textbook. But he got the job done -- especially during the 2005 post-season. He would up having a long career and played in the post-season for the Giants, Dodgers and Mets. Profundo!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chez View Post
                          What a great trade that turned out to be. KW shipped Aaron Miles (a good prospect) to Colorado for Uribe. Juan played mostly 2B his first year on the Southside (2004) and hit 23 HR's. The Sox parted ways with Valentin and made Uribe the starting SS before the 2005 season. Uribe was one of the most unconventional players I've ever seen play for the Sox. His swing, the way he fielded balls hit right at him -- nothing was textbook. But he got the job done -- especially during the 2005 post-season. He would up having a long career and played in the post-season for the Giants, Dodgers and Mets. Profundo!
                          Saying Uribe got to the postseason post-White Sox is selling his accomplishments short, not simply because getting to the postseason means less the more the postseason is expanded to include more divisions and wild cards. Delino DeShields has played in more postseason games than Dick Allen ever did, and Dick Allen's career may have been at its expiration date when he played in the NLCS.

                          The most impressive thing about Juan Uribe's career, relative to his contributions to the teams he played for, relative to their respective histories, is that after Uribe was done with the White Sox, playing a major role in their first World Series title in 88 years, he played for the 2010 Giants the year it won its first San Francisco championship, and first Giants championship in 56 years. (Aaron Rowand played for that team as well, with Steve Perry hanging around. It was an easy team for a White Sox fan to root for.)

                          When Uribe came up, he looked like he would be a good middle-infielder who would hit. Offensively, he sacrificed some of his hitting skills to focus on his power and became the poster-boy for the all-or-nothing White Sox offenses that drew so much WSI scorn. His real value to championship teams was his ability to play great, sometimes brilliant infield defense. In 2005, he anchored a great defensive infield for a special season. In 2010, he played mostly shortstop but some third and second as well, doing what was needed for the Giants to come from behind to chase down the Padres for a division title and do what was needed (mostly defensively, despite a big World Series home run) in another historic postseason run.

                          Uribe wasn't simply in the right place at the right time during a 16-year major league career. He was a player who rose to the occasion for teams that needed him for two of the greatest seasons of two franchises.

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                          • #14
                            Can't forget that play in 2004 as Koch was about to blow another save on a one-hop rocket past the mound and SS Juan got his tiny little glove on the ball and the batter stopped open-mouthed in the first base line as he was thrown out. I couldn't believe it either.
                            Perfect is the enemy of good.

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                            • #15
                              I've enjoyed watching great Sox shortstops since Chico Carrasquel. Aparicio (my favorite) was an artist. Ozzie was very smart (hidden ball tricks notwithstanding). But after Uribe's performance in 2005, of all the Sox shortstops he is the guy I want there when the big game is on the line. Anderson can make plays none of the others could make, but he is not (yet?) in the same league with any of them.
                              Last edited by FourGoldGloves; 06-08-2020, 08:48 PM.

                              Four Sox Gold Gloves in 1960.
                              One position player Gold Glove in the last 21 years.

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