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  • Wither MiLB

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ow-end-sept-30
    Big changes coming. Discuss

  • #2
    Originally posted by Dumpjerry View Post
    I think you meant “whither MiLB” but “wither” is painfully on point.
    Last edited by A. Cavatica; 09-03-2020, 03:05 PM.

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    • #3
      Ironically, the fact that the Sox affiliates in Charlotte, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, and Kannapolis, all have new downtown stadiums, means that it is possible that one or more of them could be “upgraded” to a higher level.

      For instance, depending on how leagues might be realigned, Birmingham could be promoted into a AAA club, and/or Winston-Salem could be promoted into an AA club.

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      • #4
        I’m not trying to make a value judgment here, but it seems like MLB is trying to leverage this “cut list” as a tool to get some of these cities to build new ballparks.

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        • #5
          I think independent MiLB teams could still be fine. We have a minor league affiliate of 5he SF Giants here in San Jose. It’s a fun time at the ballpark cheap. If it wasn’t a SF affiliate in don’t think people would care, but I’m not a Giants fan so I might be wrong. I think it’s more about different entertainment options than it is seeing potential future stars.
          Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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          • #6
            San Jose has the population to support a team, and if you live in (say) Gilroy then it’s a long way to SF or Oakland.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
              Ironically, the fact that the Sox affiliates in Charlotte, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, and Kannapolis, all have new downtown stadiums, means that it is possible that one or more of them could be “upgraded” to a higher level.

              For instance, depending on how leagues might be realigned, Birmingham could be promoted into a AAA club, and/or Winston-Salem could be promoted into an AA club.
              Charlotte would be a plausible expansion city, Birmingham and W-S could support promotion, and Kannapolis isn’t getting cut with the new stadium and great new name & logo. Great Falls will probably survive as an indie...if there are enough teams close by for them to play. It didn’t work well as a Sox affiliate.
              Last edited by A. Cavatica; 09-03-2020, 05:09 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by A. Cavatica View Post
                San Jose has the population to support a team, and if you live in (say) Gilroy then it’s a long way to SF or Oakland.
                A's execs thought this like 10 years ago but discovered that the Giants will never allow a team in San Jose.
                "Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but those who stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only after they are ruined."
                -- Thucydides

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HomeFish View Post

                  A's execs thought this like 10 years ago but discovered that the Giants will never allow a team in San Jose.
                  Yep. Actually Oakland used to claim San Jose as it's territory according to MLB. When the Giants were trying to build their new park in SF they asked the A's to give them San Jose to use as leverage and Oakland agreed. A few years later Pacbell (AT&T) park was built in SF. Then a decade after that Oakland wanted to leverage Oakland to get out of their Colliseum contract by threatening to move to San Jose and asked the Giants to give SJ back. The Giants refused. The A's were actually thinking about moving here at that time, but were stymied by the GIant's refusing to give up the claim. Oakland now has a beautiful new ballpark being built right by the Bay just West of downtown. They'll still be in Oakland, but the way the Bay Area is running out of "good cheap housing" it won't be long before Oakland catches up to SF in terms of housing costs and that will make that new stadium fill up with rich folks fast.
                  Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by voodoochile View Post
                    I think independent MiLB teams could still be fine. We have a minor league affiliate of 5he SF Giants here in San Jose. It’s a fun time at the ballpark cheap. If it wasn’t a SF affiliate in don’t think people would care, but I’m not a Giants fan so I might be wrong. I think it’s more about different entertainment options than it is seeing potential future stars.
                    It's both. San Jose is far more popular as a Giants affiliate. I've been told by a sportswriter that the SJ Giants do better in the Class A California League than they were doing in the Class AAA Pacific Coast League, when they were affiliated with teams like the Royals (George Brett came through San Jose) and as an independent non-affiliated team in the PCL. Teams like the SJ Giants, Stockton Ports, Modesto Nuts, when affiliated with a major league team, also get a boost from major leaguers making rehab assignments. Even when Barry Zito was struggling to keep his career together, a rehab start in Stockton drew a standing room only crowd.

                    The Nuts are certainly better off with the Mariners than they are as an independent. I've seen some independent leagues in the Southwest (the Yuma Scorpions did better selling merchandise -- i.e. "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of our house" T-shirts -- than drawing fans) and I went to Schaumburg Flyers games when Ron Kittle was managing. Fans rarely support independent leagues even when they have former MLB star power. Low minor league baseball won't survive in the 21st century independent from MLB. At the same time, minor league baseball, with its link to MLB, is important for the perpetuation of baseball in America.

                    Baseball would be better off if the current commissioner were unemployed.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TDog View Post

                      It's both. San Jose is far more popular as a Giants affiliate. I've been told by a sportswriter that the SJ Giants do better in the Class A California League than they were doing in the Class AAA Pacific Coast League, when they were affiliated with teams like the Royals (George Brett came through San Jose) and as an independent non-affiliated team in the PCL. Teams like the SJ Giants, Stockton Ports, Modesto Nuts, when affiliated with a major league team, also get a boost from major leaguers making rehab assignments. Even when Barry Zito was struggling to keep his career together, a rehab start in Stockton drew a standing room only crowd.

                      The Nuts are certainly better off with the Mariners than they are as an independent. I've seen some independent leagues in the Southwest (the Yuma Scorpions did better selling merchandise -- i.e. "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of our house" T-shirts -- than drawing fans) and I went to Schaumburg Flyers games when Ron Kittle was managing. Fans rarely support independent leagues even when they have former MLB star power. Low minor league baseball won't survive in the 21st century independent from MLB. At the same time, minor league baseball, with its link to MLB, is important for the perpetuation of baseball in America.

                      Baseball would be better off if the current commissioner were unemployed.
                      That reminds me. I was at a game where "Panda" was doing a rehab assignment with the SJ Giants.
                      Riding Shotgun on the Sox Bandwagon since before there was an Internet...



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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by voodoochile View Post

                        That reminds me. I was at a game where "Panda" was doing a rehab assignment with the SJ Giants.
                        I don't remember when MLB started allowing players coming back from the DL (now IL because change is good, I guess). It doesn't seem that long ago to me, but I'm sure it's been going on for decades now. It allowed players to get back in playing shape and didn't involve options or the ignominy of being sent down. Bob Horner, who went straight from ASU to the Atlanta Braves and the 1978 NL Rookie of the Year award, refused an assignment to AAA Richmond a couple of years later. (Ted Turner said it wasn't like he was sending him to Vietnam, a phrase that became popular for a few years.) When Horner's MLB career. After the Braves released Horner, he signed with the Yakult Swallows, a Japanese team that trained in Yuma, Arizona, annually in February before the Padres trained in March. He ended up going to Japan, and having a great season, to convince the Cardinals to sign him for what would turn out to be his last major league season rather than play in the minors. The minor league rehab thing helped baseball a lot, not only in development, but in attitudes.

                        I don't remember any Mariners rehabing with the Nuts, but players rehabing often go to Class A teams because of their proximity to the major league team. The competition level isn't the focus of getting back into playing shape. The Giants rehab players in San Jose in a league where Stockton and Modesto are also not far away. In 2017, Mike Trout rehabed in four games in San Bernardino, for the California League Inland Empire 66ers. You get these stars in these smaller, intimate ballparks, and it's a huge deal for fans. Barry Zito in 2011 and Pablo Sandoval in 2017 were on the downside of their careers, but Sandoval in 2011, '12 and '13, a recent and future All-Star and World Series star, was, no doubt, a special event in San Jose.

                        Minor league baseball can be a lot of fun. It's just about the baseball in an intimate setting. There have been some good movies made about it (I actually prefer Pastime over Bull Durham because I prefer the California-set Pastime story, and Pastime ends -- spoiler alert -- in Old Comiskey Park). And it's great when you get the brief look at current and former stars. Organizational players help the development of future stars. My father's second wife had a cousin who got as high as AAA ball in the Red Sox organization in the early 1970s. During the MLB lockout of the 1990 spring training, I did a story about the minor leagues that were working out at the Ray Kroc complex in Yuma, and saw his name on a list of coaches for a low minor league team out of Wichita Falls and tracked him down for inclusion in my news story.

                        Minor league baseball has something that MLB has lost and seems content to cast away. The popularity of MLB is important to the stability of minor league baseball. A legacy of Branch Rickey, it's a symbiotic relationship that that statheads don't understand and the current commissioner, in his overall ignorance of what makes baseball great, doesn't appreciate.

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                        • #13
                          https://blogs.fangraphs.com/sabr-ceo...e-contraction/

                          interview with a former exec of the St. Paul Saints about contraction - he shills for the MLB position mostly
                          "Hope...may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources...but those who stake their all upon the venture see it in its true colors only after they are ruined."
                          -- Thucydides

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